WotC Seeks Unity with a New Edition

wingsandsword · Jan 12, 2012

Walking Dad said:
Back to the original thought, are these popular retroclones really thin?

I don't know about retroclones, but I know some editions of D&D have been very thin.

The first edition of D&D I ever owned was the "Black Box" version of Basic D&D from circa 1991. The rulebook for it was the size of a magazine (I remember it was folded over and bound with staples), and had rules for characters up to 5th level, for the 4 core classes and for Halflings, Dwarves, and Elves in addition to humans (each one as a racial class though), spell lists for magic users and clerics, treasure information, and a small but sufficient bestiary, with heavy emphasis on dungeon crawling over outdoor or urban adventures.

I have no doubt at all that a relatively simple, but still to modern design aesthetics, version of D&D could be made into a magazine-style design aesthetic, with at least the four most basic classes, the most basic races, and a small but sufficient monster manual.

The idea of making it modular so it could be scaled up to complexity like 3.x, or to higher-level play, or to use 4e style powers as a optional systems is intriguing.

While I have my skepticism that WotC can stick to ANY long-term plan because of the nature of Hasbro changing the leadership regularly, the idea that WotC has acknowledged they have a seriously broken fanbase and want to fix it.

Kid Charlemagne · Jan 12, 2012

I'm hearing lots of talk about Virtual Tables, but no one is talking about the flipside; using digital tools while sitting at the actual, physical table. I already have players using dice tools to roll damage in game, and I could easily see a point where we'd all have tablets with our character sheets in our laps, while sitting around a big battlemat with painted figs on the tabletop.

I see both things as being important - playing virtually with digital tools and playing locally with digital tools - as well as being able to play without the tools. If your in middle school and looking to play some D&D, digital tools might be out of your reach, but pen and paper are always cheap.

wingsandsword · Jan 12, 2012

Kid Charlemagne said:
I'm hearing lots of talk about Virtual Tables, but no one is talking about the flipside; using digital tools while sitting at the actual, physical table. I already have players using dice tools to roll damage in game, and I could easily see a point where we'd all have tablets with our character sheets in our laps, while sitting around a big battlemat with painted figs on the tabletop.

I see both things as being important - playing virtually with digital tools and playing locally with digital tools - as well as being able to play without the tools. If your in middle school and looking to play some D&D, digital tools might be out of your reach, but pen and paper are always cheap.

I like that idea.

I've got an iPad. I like the idea, for example, of an app which would combine a character generator with a character sheet (make a character, pull it up on one display), with a dice roller (click on a skill or weapon ect. to roll to use it), and HP and spells/abilities used tracker, with access to a full digital copy of the PHB and a quick-reference to relevant "splat" rules for PC's like class and race rules, spell and feat/skill lists and equipment tables.

Definitely not something that should be essential to the game, but it would be nice to only have to carry an iPad with a slickly produced app instead of an armful of texts and notebooks, but I still like the tactile feedback of a physical tabletop with actual miniatures.

bouncyhead · Jan 13, 2012

Have you seen Character Folio from Dark Theatre?

Welcome to Darktheatre

It's not everything you want but it comes quite close.

Darrin Kelley · Jan 13, 2012

talok55 said:
They do need a new edition. 4E failed because a lot of D&D players don't like the mechanics and fluff, and some are just ticked off at the company, itself. I don't know if they can do much about gamers actively disliking the company, but to win back the people that don't like the game, they have to make a game that is distinctly not 4E. Making a basic 4E will not win back any customers, it will only waste money and show just how clueless they are about their customers. Besides, they basically tried that with Essentials. It was poorly received and failed to revive the brand. A new edition may not save the brand, but it is the only option they have right now.

I disagree.

The general world they created as the "world of D&D" in 4th edition works. It is a good setting, with its own sense of mythology. It at last actually feels mythic, instead of a pastiche. And achieving that was one of the many things that they did absolutely correctly, in my opinion.

I spent the last week rereading my D&D 4th edition books. And honestly? It's a decent game. It does what it sets out to do in a pretty simplified manner. I'm pretty impressed with it overall.

However, the mistakes I feel the company made were in presentation. Which actually can be corrected and the game saved. It will just take a little effort on the company's part. And a lot less resources than it would take to launch a completely new, and unnecessary edition.

Presenting a basic introduction to the game, as a basic set. Simple and totally playable, in and of itself, would provide a good entry point into the 4th edition experience. (And don't get me started on the basic set they released...)

The Essentials line. Oh what a mess of confusion that caused!

Calling anything "Essential" is an automatic point of confusion. It points the arrow firmly at those products as being absolutely necessary to play the game. When they just weren't. WOTC needs to scrub that word out of its vocabulary entirely and rename those books for what they truly are. A pocket rules compendium, and a few minor other things. They are NOT essential!

Remove the focus on miniatures. As I said above. A basic game would have sample maps and counters. And honestly? It's not that expensive to produce maps and counter sets. It's something low cost that those new to the game would really appreciate.

Putting the game back under the OGL and putting out a real SRD will spur that third party support that the company wanted in the first place. So that situation is fixable.

4th edition can simply be revised, reformatted, and relaunched. So that is not really a big problem.

The hard thing that WotC needs to do is this: Apologize to the gaming community at large. Show real effort with the products that the company will truly make good. And stop being so rediculously money-grubbing!

That is what will save D&D. Not a 5th edition. A 5th edition simply shows that they have rolled over and completely given up. That they learned nothing. That they will totally repeat their folly again. And that they just consider the gaming community drones simply to be be sold to.

talok55 · Jan 13, 2012

First of all, I'd have to disagree with you about the implied setting for 4E. It's too vague and too blah. It would have been much better to not destroy the Forgotten Realms and have it be the flagship campaign setting for 4E. I do not see how revamping and relaunching 4E would do them one bit of good. Besides the massive PR errors that WotC has made, the simple fact is that many people do not like the mechanics of 4E or the flavor of it's implied setting and the 4E Forgotten Realms. Anything that does not drastically alter both will not win back any fans that left. Many left because 4E is not D&D to them. They will not for one second consider buying a revamped 4E because it will still have everything they don't like about the game. For WotC to be successful with D&D, they have to bring back a lot of customers that bailed because of 4E. They absolutely cannot do that with a 4.75 (or whatever you call it). What they are doing now is even better than an apology to all the fans they angered with their horrendous 4E "marketing" and "ruining" their favorite game. They are not only saying "We messed up your game, and we're sorry." They are saying, "We are trying to fix our mistakes by making a game that is D&D to you." What else can they do that's better than that?

SlyDoubt · Jan 13, 2012

Is there any specific reason wizards can't produce updated versions of the 1e - 3e handbooks/dmg/monster manuals? legally I mean.

I half expected them to decide to simply start producing pathfinderesque adventures for previous editions and just make some kind of single volume resource for each edition. That would be actually giving everyone what they want...

However, 'new' sells really well. I wonder what enworld's traffic is like since the announcement. probably higher than normal as players/dms who have stepped away return to check things out (myself). 'New' is a money grab tactic though and quickly runs its course (4E) so they're really going to have to put their noodles together and making something substantial.

not just essential essentials.

Edit: I really like the idea posted above about pursuing digital tools for playing at the table. especially for wizard type characters who, when just starting out, will be doing a ton of referencing which really bogs play down. wotc should really pursue this angle. they avoid it because they really hate the idea of anything non-subscription based and digital since it can be pirated. as long as they price it appropriately I am confident players will support the product.

what a dream it would be for all my players with some kind of device (phone, ipod, ipad, whatever) to be able to have both rules reference and character sheet wrapped into one program. they really need to go this route.

avin · Jan 15, 2012

I don't think unite all editions is possible, but it's a damn good starting point.

Dear Monte & Mike, one thing you can do that will please ANY D&D player and DM: don't put the books on print before you are sure they are free of errors.

avin · Jan 15, 2012

UngeheuerLich said:
[MENTION=6762]avin[/MENTION]: for me it was a reason to stay... it is a lot more confortable now... but I understand your decision.

I Used to prepare a lot of games during my job's travels. Even on plane flights. But it's hard to find good hotel wireless and there's no such thing as domestic flight Internet on Brazil.

Was a bit pissed with online CB, but as soon they announced online MB I cancelled my annual DDI subscription... and so, decided to kill my 4E games.

UngeheuerLich · Jan 15, 2012

Ok, as I said: i can understand it. For me it is a lot more confortable, because I can log in from my brother´s computer, from my session´s hosts computer etc.
So what is better for one is worse for the other...