Baumi
Adventurer
What combat/non-combat divide? If you are referring to Encounter Powers, these are mean any kind of Encounters (Combat, Social, and so on).
L&L: Putting the Vance in Vancian
- Thread starter Savage Wombat
- Start date
What combat/non-combat divide? If you are referring to Encounter Powers, these are mean any kind of Encounters (Combat, Social, and so on).
Oni
First Post
Wouldn't record my vote on the AW/E/D system. 
Anyway, the one thing that I really like about the Vancian system, and the one thing that isn't really touched on in the poll, and the one thing that would really sway my opinion about any of the other styles is that the ability to expand laterally. That spells aren't just something that you learn when you level up, they're something you go out and find and can add to your repertoire. I enjoyed playing 3e style sorcerer on occasion, but the one thing that always disappointed me was finding new and interesting spells and just going meh, because they were useless. That one thing badly hurt the appeal of the class for me.
Anyway, the one thing that I really like about the Vancian system, and the one thing that isn't really touched on in the poll, and the one thing that would really sway my opinion about any of the other styles is that the ability to expand laterally. That spells aren't just something that you learn when you level up, they're something you go out and find and can add to your repertoire. I enjoyed playing 3e style sorcerer on occasion, but the one thing that always disappointed me was finding new and interesting spells and just going meh, because they were useless. That one thing badly hurt the appeal of the class for me.
I personally prefer a Sorcerer-type caster. Vancian magic wouldn't be so bad if there was also some sort of "at-will" ability (as much as I hate the 4e model).
When I first played 1e, I remember being limited to one spell per day, and of course that one spell had to be "Read Magic", so a MU was pretty much useless until 2nd level. At least with 3e, Read Magic became a cantrip, but the point is made. Especially at low levels, once a mage runs out of prepared spells, s/he might as well go home (or die).
I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of "feat" that allowed an at-will ability, similar to a warlock's eldritch blast. That would make Vancian more "palatable".
When I first played 1e, I remember being limited to one spell per day, and of course that one spell had to be "Read Magic", so a MU was pretty much useless until 2nd level. At least with 3e, Read Magic became a cantrip, but the point is made. Especially at low levels, once a mage runs out of prepared spells, s/he might as well go home (or die).
I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of "feat" that allowed an at-will ability, similar to a warlock's eldritch blast. That would make Vancian more "palatable".
Kingreaper
Adventurer
True, assuming they didn't store any data other than "number of votes". However he can say "A majority want us to include Vancian and an overlapping majority want us to include non-Vancian": which is close enough.
grimslade
Krampus ate my d20s
Is this the path to specialist wizards and schools? A feat with a 'utility' spell and a few bonuses. It is a goofy mechanic on its own, but it could lend itself to another layer of customization if used with all classes.
Say you have a Disciple of Bigby feat for your bonus 'path' feat. It gives you Mage Hand whenever and Bigby's Pimp Slapping Hand at-will. It is the starter for a feat chain that opens up metamagky goodness appropriate to Bigby, conversion of damage type to force, a rider on any Bigby spell that gives a push 5', access to the Order of the Arcane Fist Prestige class.
The neat thing with this is you can use it to build fighting maneuvers for fighters, 2e style priesthoods for cleric/ priest and thief acrobats. The simple form of classes have a generic specialization built in as class abilities.
Say you have a Disciple of Bigby feat for your bonus 'path' feat. It gives you Mage Hand whenever and Bigby's Pimp Slapping Hand at-will. It is the starter for a feat chain that opens up metamagky goodness appropriate to Bigby, conversion of damage type to force, a rider on any Bigby spell that gives a push 5', access to the Order of the Arcane Fist Prestige class.
The neat thing with this is you can use it to build fighting maneuvers for fighters, 2e style priesthoods for cleric/ priest and thief acrobats. The simple form of classes have a generic specialization built in as class abilities.
This was far more informative then the,other articals and blog posts lately and has reexcited my interest in 5e.
The wizard disciple feats and wizard mark feats idea sounds awesome.
Here is my thinking Wizards will be divided into the normal specialist schools and generalists, with specialty wizards getting feature according to school with generalists getting free wizard mark feats.
I don't know which class gets the magical feats as the whole class feature thing, but if it is warlock then I suspect that they'll be feat chains based around pacts and pact specific features as well that buff feat powers.
Cleric's will be mostly spells based, but with the option of domain feats akin to Wizard Marks.
Priests will be mostly domain feats based with with a main domain that grant unique advantages, like arcana that grants wizard marks, war that grants combat manuevers, life which grants a bonus to healing, ect...
Combat Manuevers maybe feat based as well.
Druids I see remaining primal in nature, with a spirit feata based system, but still primarily vancian based, plus features. Rangers will have,the option of taking spirit feats as well, but no spells.
Paladin's I see primarily feature based, depend on,your choice of vice or virtue aedu style, but possibly with option of taking domain feats.
Assassins and Rogues, Rogues I can see picking,from a bag of tricks, which includes backstab and sneak attack as well as none combat stuff and Assassins shadow magic feats and poison abilities amoung other things, with maybe its own choice of tricks and maybe assassin guild feature.
The wizard disciple feats and wizard mark feats idea sounds awesome.
Here is my thinking Wizards will be divided into the normal specialist schools and generalists, with specialty wizards getting feature according to school with generalists getting free wizard mark feats.
I don't know which class gets the magical feats as the whole class feature thing, but if it is warlock then I suspect that they'll be feat chains based around pacts and pact specific features as well that buff feat powers.
Cleric's will be mostly spells based, but with the option of domain feats akin to Wizard Marks.
Priests will be mostly domain feats based with with a main domain that grant unique advantages, like arcana that grants wizard marks, war that grants combat manuevers, life which grants a bonus to healing, ect...
Combat Manuevers maybe feat based as well.
Druids I see remaining primal in nature, with a spirit feata based system, but still primarily vancian based, plus features. Rangers will have,the option of taking spirit feats as well, but no spells.
Paladin's I see primarily feature based, depend on,your choice of vice or virtue aedu style, but possibly with option of taking domain feats.
Assassins and Rogues, Rogues I can see picking,from a bag of tricks, which includes backstab and sneak attack as well as none combat stuff and Assassins shadow magic feats and poison abilities amoung other things, with maybe its own choice of tricks and maybe assassin guild feature.
This was far more informative then the,other articals and blog posts lately and has reexcited my interest in 5e.
The wizard disciple feats and wizard mark feats idea sounds awesome.
Here is my thinking Wizards will be divided into the normal specialist schools and generalists, with specialty wizards getting feature according to school with generalists getting free wizard mark feats.
I don't know which class gets the magical feats as the whole class feature thing, but if it is warlock then I suspect that they'll be feat chains based around pacts and pact specific features as well that buff feat powers.
Cleric's will be mostly spells based, but with the option of domain feats akin to Wizard Marks.
Priests will be mostly domain feats based with with a main domain that grant unique advantages, like arcana that grants wizard marks, war that grants combat manuevers, life which grants a bonus to healing, ect...
Combat Manuevers maybe feat based as well.
Druids I see remaining primal in nature, with a spirit feata based system, but still primarily vancian based, plus features. Rangers will have,the option of taking spirit feats as well, but no spells.
Paladin's I see primarily feature based, depend on,your choice of vice or virtue aedu style, but possibly with option of taking domain feats.
Assassins and Rogues, Rogues I can see picking,from a bag of tricks, which includes backstab and sneak attack as well as none combat stuff and Assassins shadow magic feats and poison abilities amoung other things, with maybe its own choice of tricks and maybe assassin guild feature.
The wizard disciple feats and wizard mark feats idea sounds awesome.
Here is my thinking Wizards will be divided into the normal specialist schools and generalists, with specialty wizards getting feature according to school with generalists getting free wizard mark feats.
I don't know which class gets the magical feats as the whole class feature thing, but if it is warlock then I suspect that they'll be feat chains based around pacts and pact specific features as well that buff feat powers.
Cleric's will be mostly spells based, but with the option of domain feats akin to Wizard Marks.
Priests will be mostly domain feats based with with a main domain that grant unique advantages, like arcana that grants wizard marks, war that grants combat manuevers, life which grants a bonus to healing, ect...
Combat Manuevers maybe feat based as well.
Druids I see remaining primal in nature, with a spirit feata based system, but still primarily vancian based, plus features. Rangers will have,the option of taking spirit feats as well, but no spells.
Paladin's I see primarily feature based, depend on,your choice of vice or virtue aedu style, but possibly with option of taking domain feats.
Assassins and Rogues, Rogues I can see picking,from a bag of tricks, which includes backstab and sneak attack as well as none combat stuff and Assassins shadow magic feats and poison abilities amoung other things, with maybe its own choice of tricks and maybe assassin guild feature.
thedungeondelver
Adventurer
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