Grumpy RPG Reviews - Blacks in Gaming

Lwaxy · Feb 27, 2012

That would mean if either we get more black characters representing any culture or any color of skin representing African culture more people of African descent would feel represented.

Thunderfoot · Feb 27, 2012

Lwaxy said:
<SNIP>
Oh and the term "Caucasian" really annoys me. I'm not from the Caucasus area, I'm German, for the sake of all pantheons <SNIP>

Lolz - I needed that, thanks.
My family isn't either, but since the "first" white body was found in that region the scientists named it as such - and you how scientists are with their naming conventions (no offense Umbran.

) I'm sure Asians (especially the Chinese) don't like the term "Mongoloid" either. :lol:

Thunderfoot · Feb 27, 2012

Lwaxy said:
That would mean if either we get more black characters representing any culture or any color of skin representing African culture more people of African descent would feel represented.

Probably, maybe, no???
I try not to second guess anyone's reaction when it comes to culture, religion or politics, usually I'm wrong.
I would say, it's all fantasy and therefore it doesn't matter, but as soon as I do, there would be a knock on the door and the PC police would be dragging me away for re-education. And if I said, yes that's the answer, more often than not, I would get a radical (culture/religion/political) member telling me I'm missing the point.

I try to stay away from real world actualities in my games and use variants thereof. For instance I used the old Soviet Union as a template for one my nations in game and then made them religious radicals. Yeah, no direct parallel there. Or the Middle-eastern inspired lizardman tribe, the Germanic monkey folk that spoke Scandinavian, the barbaric elvish nomads with a definitive Chinese culture. Nothing sacred and nothing specific, I'll trash any accepted social/economic/religious/cultural conventions and so far, because it is so far removed from reality, I haven't ever had a problem with it. Here's hoping it stays that way.

Thunderfoot · Feb 27, 2012

Blacks in Gaming - I'm for it!

And speaking of which Danny, are you coming to GenCon this year? You have to take a vacation sometime dude.

Dannyalcatraz · Feb 27, 2012

From discussions I've had on the matter, I've come to understand that the tonal quality of the skin isn't the only issue, and maybe not even the central one. The skin color, to us, still implies a great deal about cultural background, and that is also important. Especially in a game where we usually idealize race to be equivalent to culture.

Yep...and as long as setting designers stick to a quasi-European paradigm as their starting point, it's going to be a problem.

And the thing is, I think this is going to be the default for most commercial settings, simply because most people work from their own experiences & preconceptions.

Now, homebrews are another matter entirely. I'm routinely involved with people on these boards trying stuff based on non-European cultures. Like in this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/256063-what-would-society-look-like.html

Or they try to add some non-standard elements to make fantasy cultures more...fantastic. http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/306105-what-animals-do-they-keep.html

jonesy · Feb 27, 2012

Thunderfoot said:
...but since the "first" white body was found in that region the scientists named it as such..

Caucasian as used to refer to 'white people' is a U.S. only thing. Elsewhere it doesn't have much anything to do with skin tone.

Dannyalcatraz · Feb 27, 2012

Thunderfoot said:
Blacks in Gaming - I'm for it!
And speaking of which Danny, are you coming to GenCon this year? You have to take a vacation sometime dude.

Alas, I'm in training for the next couple of months with an eye towards becoming a professional mediator- being an attorney SUXXXX!

Umbran · Feb 27, 2012

Dannyalcatraz said:
Yep...and as long as setting designers stick to a quasi-European paradigm as their starting point, it's going to be a problem.

And the thing is, I think this is going to be the default for most commercial settings, simply because most people work from their own experiences & preconceptions.

You make it sound like a casual disregard on the part of the writer. I think it is a bit more than that.

Doing a good and proper treatment of a culture for the game requires significant knowledge of the culture, including a lot of real-world history, and understanding of that culture's mythic structures and magical traditions, right?

That's not information that your typical writer comes upon casually. It requires a whole lot of research and education of the writer. And it isn't like game writing carries a major paycheck that allows the writer to spend months off in the library and taking college courses to bring himself or herself up to speed.

There's a sort of market chicken and egg problem. Cultures that are minorities in the US are under-represented in RPG gaming at least in part because their cultures are under represented in the games. But, since the players aren't there right now, a publisher has little guarantee that taking the extra effort will pay off.

So, you either need a game company that's rich enough to take some risks, or wait until you just happen to get a good game writer who is also a hobbyist on some other culture, before you'll see a compelling treatment.

Dannyalcatraz · Feb 27, 2012

You make it sound like a casual disregard on the part of the writer. I think it is a bit more than that.

Not my intent.

More like all creative types start with what they know best as a starting point, then go from there.

Add to that the economics of aiming for the biggest target...

Thunderfoot · Feb 27, 2012

jonesy said:
Caucasian as used to refer to 'white people' is a U.S. only thing. Elsewhere it doesn't have much anything to do with skin tone.

Not true actually - While the term classifies as white person for most official documents in the US. (though in Federal documents it is slowly changing to a choice of White Hispanic or White non-Hispanic.)

The term actually comes from the Scientific term for the first white man using the scientific classification of hominids.

Caucasoid - A descendant of the first white hominid - Caucus man
Negroid - A descendant of the first black hominid - Literally Black man
Mongoloid - A descendant of the first yellow hominid - Mongol man
Aboriginal - A descendant of the Aboriginal tribes of Australia - a recent addition to classification as they have common strands with the other three types but are an apparently unique species of hominid. Though dating cannot confirm quite possibly the first hominid race.