Why shouldn't you run away from the cops when falsely accused?

Cor Azer · Mar 9, 2012

Kaodi said:
Though it is only anecdotal evidence, I met a cop once who told me that it was not the job of the police to care whether a person was guilty or not. That was " the judges' job " . Needless to say, I find it a lot easier to understand why police brutality is so prevalent now.

This was in Canada, but I doubt that police culture, when you get down to essential elements, is that different in the two countries.

Not really as blunt as that, but my police officer friends more or less concur. The job of the police is to find who most likely commited the crime. The job of the prosecutor is the prove that likelihood. The job of the defense is to poke holes in that proof. The job of the judge is to wrangle cats.

I don't think they have a high appreciation of lawyer theatrics in front of judges.

JRRNeiklot · Mar 9, 2012

Elf Witch said:
The thing is reasonable suspicion can mean a lot of things.

If someone accuses you of a crime that is reasonable suspicion.

If you were a witness to a crime and refuse to cooperate by even giving the cop your name you can be charged with obstruction. If you lie to a cop during an investigation you can be charged for that.

Actually, I misspoke above. Reasonable suspicion is enough to detain and question, and search for weapons to ensure the officer's safety. Probable Cause is needed for an arrest, and it's a different animal. "Probable Cause" must be based on factual evidence, not a hunch. Probable cause is often subjective, but if the police officer's belief or even hunch was correct, finding stolen goods, the hidden weapon, or drugs may be claimed as self-fulfilling proof of probable cause, though technically, probable cause has to exist prior to arrest, search or seizure.

Now, I'm still looking at this from a gaming perspective, obviously I'm not suggesting you resist or flee arrest in real life, unless you are absolutely positive it's a false arrest. And if you do, you had better be right.

billd91 · Mar 9, 2012

Elf Witch said:
If you mouth off at the police officer outside the store and refuse to answer questions or show ID when asked you may find your self slapped in cuffs for obstruction.

Refusing to answer questions (beyond identifying yourself) doesn't qualify as obstruction. If they do arrest you for that, any competent attorney should be able to defend you successfully. Lying to them is generally where obstruction applies.

Elf Witch said:
In real life it pays to cooperate politely with law enforcement. Though if you are formally questioned for a crime always always ask for an attorney to be present.

No, don't ask. Firmly demand and don't talk until that lawyer is there. That's the advice of my defense attorney friend (and fellow gamer). It's too easy to dig yourself into a hole even if you are innocent of the crime being investigated without legal counsel.

Wild Gazebo · Mar 9, 2012

Sorry misread the example. Please ignore.

Elf Witch · Mar 9, 2012

billd91 said:
No, don't ask. Firmly demand and don't talk until that lawyer is there. That's the advice of my defense attorney friend (and fellow gamer). It's too easy to dig yourself into a hole even if you are innocent of the crime being investigated without legal counsel.

Ask, demand do what ever you have to. I have a friend who is public defender for over 30 years. He always said to not only ask for the attorney but to come out and say you are choosing to remain silent. Once you do that they are not supposed to keep questioning you.

The thing that people forget is that cops are allowed to lie. And they will do what ever they can to get a confession. Why do you think so many confess when they are innocent.

Janx · Mar 10, 2012

Elf Witch said:
Ask, demand do what ever you have to. I have a friend who is public defender for over 30 years. He always said to not only ask for the attorney but to come out and say you are choosing to remain silent. Once you do that they are not supposed to keep questioning you.

The thing that people forget is that cops are allowed to lie. And they will do what ever they can to get a confession. Why do you think so many confess when they are innocent.

In recent cop shows I've seen (ex. Castle), it's been pointed out within the show that generally, the person who asks for a lawyer is the guilty one.

So remaining silent or asking for a lawyer falls into the realm of running away. It makes you look guilty, despite actually being innocent.

The logic of "only a guilty person has something to hide" prevails behind this attitude, and as a result standing for your rights only makes you look more guilty.

One possible ridiculous solution to this is to implement an eye for an eye policy. Cops have the right to search, detain, etc. But if they are wrong, then their house gets ransacked, they get strip searched, bubba'd, anything that happened to you during the course of being investigated/detained as an
innocent.

If searching wasn't "free" cops would better guage their need to do it.

Of course, then bad cops would simply come prepared with some plantable evidence for just in case times they search and find nothing.

Kzach · Mar 10, 2012

Hmm... after a bit of thought on this, I think I'm on Elf Witch's side. Having been through the 'system' more than once, I think that if I was confronted and (falsely) accused of something, I'd lawyer up immediately and not say a word afterwards, whether in the Australian system (which is substantially different) or the American.

I don't care if the cops think that makes you guilty. At the end of the day, having the lawyer means you have an advocate on your side who understands the ins and outs of the law and is (or at least should be) acting in your best interests. It doesn't matter what the cops THINK, it matters what actually transpires in the courtroom and leading up to it and for that, I think a lawyer is an indispensable asset.

Cor Azer · Mar 11, 2012

Yup. Even if completely innocent - lawyer. I've read a lot of IANAL threads, but that only makes me NAL. I want someone who actually knows what's going on.

Janx · Mar 11, 2012

Cor Azer said:
Yup. Even if completely innocent - lawyer. I've read a lot of IANAL threads, but that only makes me NAL. I want someone who actually knows what's going on.

a reasonable desire.

One problem. lawyers aren't free. Except for overworked public defenders.

We hear the phrase "let me talk to my lawyer", but the reality, most of us don't have a lawyer's name or number on the tip of our tongues or in our contact list.

So when trouble strikes, and you need to talk to your lawyer, you're one step behind in the game, what lawyer?