D&D 5E Who's given up on D&D Next?

SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS · Mar 31, 2012

Mircoles said:
Once I learned that they put Monte in charge, I became skeptical. Once I learned that vancian magic and save or suck were being put back in, I lost interest.

And the OP was complaining that the game is too modern... I find it funny.

imurphy943 · Mar 31, 2012

Save-or-suck is modern too, in the way that keys are modern; 3e had it. Even with save-or-die, I'm still feeling pessimistic. Mike and Monte seem like okay guys, but I'm not harboring a lot of hope. Vancian magic is the sort of thing that I'd get pissed about leaving out, but not really be ecstatic about. Like decent tires.

GX.Sigma · Mar 31, 2012

Matthew L. Martin said:
Death of the industry? Ten years ago, I would have said 'probably'. Now, though, I'm not so sure. The explosion of PDF, PoD and Kickstarter means that there are all sorts of ways of attracting interest and getting product out there that don't require the existing distribution network, which probably does rely on D&D to keep it functional. It would be a decidedly different industry, but I'm no longer convinced that the downfall of D&D would reduce roleplaying to a self-supported hobby. More of a cottage industry than it already is, mind, but not completely devoid of professional or semi-professional product.

If D&D dies, Paizo will gain top dog status in the RPG industry. They've been doing fine without D&D for years, and if D&D truly dies, that's where the D&D fans are going to go. If Paizo then

s it up, then maybe the industry will be in trouble, but I doubt it.

TarionzCousin · Apr 1, 2012

Piratecat said:
I'll say this, since it's known we're playtesting: I have possibly lost perspective on what I'd think if I read the current rules afresh. But holy crap, are our playtest games fun. Take that with whatever grain of sand you like -- your gaming style surely differs from mine.

I keep an open mind. Rules change and evolve dramatically. But it's a delight to see the design team iterating based on playtest feedback.

Why are your playtest games so much fun? Are the new rules easy to implement or rewarding? What can you say that doesn't include specifics covered by the NDA? This is the sort of thing I want to read more than hints at specifics.

Also, so far the Mistophecy has been silent regarding 5E. Will that last? :hmm:

nedjer · Apr 1, 2012

Matthew L. Martin said:
Death of the hobby? No way.

Death of the industry? Ten years ago, I would have said 'probably'. Now, though, I'm not so sure. The explosion of PDF, PoD and Kickstarter means that there are all sorts of ways of attracting interest and getting product out there that don't require the existing distribution network, which probably does rely on D&D to keep it functional. It would be a decidedly different industry, but I'm no longer convinced that the downfall of D&D would reduce roleplaying to a self-supported hobby. More of a cottage industry than it already is, mind, but not completely devoid of professional or semi-professional product.

If I wished to avoid discussing degrees of death I should of used something like run-down - however, for the many hardback rule books style of play I don't think it's far off. If 4e looked like making enough money to justify a 5e instead of a Next, an edition rather than an iteration, the new version would presumably resemble and be headlined as proceeding from/ 100% good for 4e fans.

Yeah more of a reincarnation job than a raise dead. The rules lighter side of the industry also seems set for change in a more corporate direction - looking at recent collectible toy RPGs appearing from Lego and others. These are straight on to retail toy shelves and beginning to eat into RPG territory using boardgame mechanics. The likely loss there, perhaps, being a move from RPGs made by RPG players for RPG players to more RPGs made by toymakers for rushed parents.

nedjer · Apr 1, 2012

GX.Sigma said:
If D&D dies, Paizo will gain top dog status in the RPG industry. They've been doing fine without D&D for years, and if D&D truly dies, that's where the D&D fans are going to go. If Paizo then s it up, then maybe the industry will be in trouble, but I doubt it.

I may be mistaken on this, but I seem to remember reading an opinion from Paizo. I thought they preferred a bigger dedicated RPG market with a healthy D&D and a healthy Pathfinder over a larger share of a smaller dedicated market?

Scribble · Apr 1, 2012

You're supposed to wait until you've bought the first set of core books so that:

1. You can loudly proclaim that you've at least "given it a fair shot, but this is no longer D&D."

2. You can proclaim you plan to burn them, or demand your money back from your hobby store.

3. We can all call "dibs!" on the books you no longer will be using.

I call false start on your Edition Waring. Five yard penalty.

imurphy943 · Apr 1, 2012

I'm going to go ahead and edit some of my earlier statements into the original post, so people will stop posting assuming that I'm trying to declare edition war on a game still in development.

Mark CMG · Apr 1, 2012

imurphy943 said:
I'm going to go ahead and edit some of my earlier statements into the original post, so people will stop posting assuming that I'm trying to declare edition war on a game still in development.

Edition wars are a touchy subject around here. Claiming the hype or some of the assumptions they are bringing to the table are driving you from even considering 5E isn't yet considered a valid position by many. Just the fact that you wished to address people who wouldn't be in the 5E forum but having the thread moved to the 5E forum, and that the move made sense to some people, fairly well sums up the general disbelief that anyone can have made up their mind as an impossible scenario. Personally I recognize it as a valid position even though I'm not close to being there and am still hoping that they build enough into the core game (and OGL the thing) so that it can have some legs with most gamers. Afterall, I've been a fan since 1974 and despite the hiccups they had retaining their market share with the last edition, they've done pretty well by me providing a huge fan base of potential roleplayers over many, many years.

And sadly the same general pushback against making up minds is already in evidence as it was four years ago when some folks didn't care for the direction of the last edition and decided early (or along the way toward release) not to buy in. They were told you can't know from what we've been given before release. Then they were told, you can't know from what others are saying unless you read it yourself. Then they were told you can't know unless you play it yourself. Then they were told you can't know unless you've run a campaign. Etc. Along all of those stages there are people who do know, for themselves, what about the hype, or the glimpses, or the rules discussion, or the gameplay, or the presentation, has helped them make up their minds. But some simply won't allow for it because it doesn't fit their own feelings about the game they have bought into and somehow discussion of that cannot be had civilly for many.

The problem seems to be, however, that the wait and buy and run the game or your opinion doesn't count attitude has WotC shelving a game after four years and begging the public to come on board and help them make a new one that more people will like. So, if the opinions are going to be discounted no matter at what stage, then the feedback will only come from an echo chamber of stalwart defenders and WotC will wind up with no more than what they got last time around, and probably even less. That would be a real shame but we'd only have our collective selves to blame for the outcome.

JohnH · Apr 1, 2012

I played 2nd ed back in the early 90's and thoroughly enjoyed it. Our group broke up and that was the end of my roleplaying, until 4E came out. 4E brought me back into the fold and it's been great.

I didn't like essentials and I'm not looking forward to 5E but hey whatever. They're in the business to make money. There's no correct edition, you play what you like.