Cleric design goals . Legends and Lore April 23

Gundark · Apr 23, 2012

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Cleric Design Goals)

Discuss

Arytiss · Apr 23, 2012

EXCALAMATORY STATEMENT RESULTING FROM MISINTERPRETATION OF THE ARTICLE COMBINED WITH MY OWN SPECULATION!!!

With that over with, it's a nice look at what's going on inside the design process. The fact that it's possible to build a sneaky cleric scout within the system speaks many favorable volumes to me. Even more so that it can be done without relying solely on class features.

I particularly like point 5. Clerics should reflect their gods. It's something that should really be a given, yet so many players neglect it.

am181d · Apr 23, 2012

I'm wondering if this means they're giving up on the Priest as a separate class. If they're stressing versatility for the main Cleric class and they're giving examples of lightly armored Clerics, it takes a way a lot of the driving need for an independent Priest class, doesn't it?

But I like this overall, and in particular I like: "The class should relate in some way to archetypal characters, stories, legends, and myths that form modern fantasy. Someone who has never played D&D should understand what the class represents within the fantasy genre."

BobTheNob · Apr 23, 2012

I liked point 3 : Divine Spells are subtle. Gives a clear definition of what divine magic is meant to do as opposed to arcane. Clerics and Mages are defined by the spells they cast, and when those lines blur and cleric spells can most of the things arcane spells can, I just see no reason for mages.

Keep a nice clean line between the two, they both stay relevant and player expectations remain controlled.

UngeheuerLich · Apr 23, 2012

I can´t wait for the playtest!

Gundark · Apr 23, 2012

I played a cleric in 3rd that was an archer . Nice to be able to do that again. That was a fun character to play .

Savage Wombat · Apr 23, 2012

The fact that clerical magic is "subtle" might show us the spot for priests, if they're still serious about having "smitey" divine casters. If you want your cleric of Agni to throw firebolts around, you won't be happy with subtle background magic.

WarlockLord · Apr 23, 2012

Kinda dumb IMO, mythological divine magic isn't exactly subtle.

Does anyone else think #5 is in response to the overwhelming backlash against not being able to play an evil cleric in 4e?

I've edited out the real world commentary. Next time don't put it in. Thanks. Plane Sailing

Connorsrpg · Apr 23, 2012

All sounds good to me.

A clear distinction between Arcane and Divine magic (other than name and presence/absence of healing spells) is a big plus. Really helps in explaining what they do. Though damaging spells vs undead and other divine enemies still fits.

I love the idea of clerics being like their deity. Specialty priests were a great idea. So long as we don't get stupid powers that are made to suit the rules/energy types as opposed to just powers that reflects the deity's spheres of influence. (Eg: A priest of an earth god gaining ACID

powers)?

Looking forward to seeng this myself.

FireLance · Apr 23, 2012

WarlockLord said:
Does anyone else think #5 is in response to the overwhelming backlash against not being able to play an evil cleric in 4e?

I think it's more a response to the historical "sameness" that the cleric class has had over the editions. Basic and 1e clerics pretty much had the same spells, weapons and armor, regardless of deity. 2e had the most variety, with specialty priests given as an option alongside the "standard" cleric. 3e gave clerics different domains and allowed for more customization through feats, but all clerics still had access to a common and very extensive spell list. 4e clerics started off pretty much generic again (although individual clerics could be quite different by virtue of selecting different powers). With the release of Divine Power, there was some scope for more distinctiveness through selecting domain feats, but (IMO) the clerics of different gods became truly distinctive only after the release of the Essentials warpriest.

In any case, you could play an evil cleric in 4e if you wanted to, although it might not look very different from a non-evil cleric. Divine Power even had feats for "darker" domains such as Darkness, Death, Destruction, Madness, Poison, Strife, Torment, Tyranny and Undeath.

As for the design goals, I would say that #2 (The Cleric Is a Divine Spellcaster) is the most important, followed by #5 (Clerics Reflect the Gods). Everything else should just be starting points and customizable by the player. It should be possible to make a cleric who is not a healer or an armored warrior and who smites and blasts his enemies with raw, direct, unsubtle displays of divine power. (Flame strike! Earthquake! Insect plague! Astral storm! Mass harm! Slay living!)