D&D 5E Monte Cook Leaves WotC - No Longer working on D&D Next [updated]

Steel_Wind · Apr 26, 2012

Neonchameleon said:
It's a bad sign when one of the leads leaves like this. But I wish I was surprised that all the blame was being put on 4e fans when a paid consultant for the 5e development team that represents the Old School quite literally suggested disconnecting Monte Cook's vocal cords in both private and public. With a work environment like that I'm not surprised Monte Cook left.

I don't know who wrote that, but I'm quite certain that is a man whose sense of business judgment is profoundly flawed. I would not hire that guy to rake my lawn.

As for the fallout from this whole debacle, I am left to conclude that this thread, sadly, typifies the emotional context surrounding 5e going forward. Any hope of burying the hatchet and "uniting fans" now appears to be undone at a stroke. The past four years of edition warring now promises to be merely the analog to WW I, with WWII in the offing.

I don't have a clue what lead to this, but it seems extremely unlikely that the damage done to the 5e brand will be worth it.

To borrow a phrase from Tywin Lannister: Madness; Madness and stupidity.

gweinel · Apr 26, 2012

CasvalRemDeikun said:
As someone who didn't buy PF, I certainly will be getting these. 3.5E wasn't perfect, but it is still worth having on my shelf. But they need to release 2E reprints too.

Now i see what wizard meant about unifing all the dnd player's. They are gonna produce all the previous editions so all the players will gonna buy their favorite edition and then the company gonna produce the 5e which will be the continuity of the 4e.

/bad sarcasm off

DM Howard · Apr 26, 2012

Steel_Wind said:
I don't know who wrote that, but I'm quite certain that is a man whose sense of business judgment is profoundly flawed. I would not hire that guy to rake my lawn.

As for the fallout from this whole debacle, I am left to conclude that this thread, sadly, typifies the emotional context surrounding. 5e going forward. Any hope of burying the hatchet and "uniting fans" now appears to be undone at a stroke. The past four years of edition warring now promises to be merely the analog to WW I, with WWII in the offing.

I don't have a clue what lead to this, but it seems extremely unlikely that the damage done to the 5e brand will be worth it.

I really don't think so to be honest. A lot of players (not all) got over the idea of Monte working on 5E, now (I'm sure) a lot of people will get over his leaving. Peace will come if people give it a chance.

DEFCON 1 · Apr 26, 2012

I'll be curious to see if this opens up the door for either Wyatt or Perkins to move over from their 4E creative work to join the 5E design team.

Although based upon history... both of them also seem to be the current 'veterans' of the company that could be targets of the next series of WotC layoffs.

It'll be interesting to see what James and Chris end up doing.

theuglyamerican · Apr 26, 2012

Dndungeoneer said:
I really don't think so to be honest. A lot of players (not all) got over the idea of Monte working on 5E, now (I'm sure) a lot of people will get over his leaving. Peace will come if people give it a chance.

Will it? As a 3.x enthusiast (in the form of Pathfinder), I'm not seeing anyone on the design team who will be a champion of my preferred version of the game. I'm not suggesting that nobody on the team is willing to incorporate features from 3.x. Rather, now there's nobody on the team who will be running feedback through a 3.x perspective in the first instance. That's a huge loss for the project, because if the 3.x players don't come back, this new edition will not be the commercial success I believe Hasbro demands.

You rightly state that most players got over Cook being involved in the project in the first place. However, there's a major difference between one member of a three-person team being someone whose views you disagree with, and not having anyone on the team at all who will fight for the preferences of a large segment of the potential market. One voice among many vs. no voice at all isn't really comparing apples to apples.

And even though I'm a Pathfinder player, I do genuinely want 5e to be a resounding success. D&D has been and remains the gateway to the hobby for the vast majority of people, and the game most non-gamers think of when roleplaying is mentioned. A strong D&D means a strong RPG hobby not just for WotC but for Paizo and White Wolf and Chaosium and Hero and Palladium and for countless indie companies. A strong D&D is good for every roleplayer, even ones who never play D&D at all. Cook leaving issues a critical wound to the prospects of a strong D&D going forward, and that's a bad thing for everyone.

Janaxstrus · Apr 26, 2012

Dndungeoneer said:
I really don't think so to be honest. A lot of players (not all) got over the idea of Monte working on 5E, now (I'm sure) a lot of people will get over his leaving. Peace will come if people give it a chance.

Without any sort of dissent on a 4e-centric design team, no, people won't get over it.

Heck, as I typed this someone suggested another 4e person join the team.

SOMEONE is needed that those of us that disliked 4e and most everything it brought to the table, could trust to see our side of things. Someone is needed to keep the 4e team from patting each other on the back and giving us more of the same. Someone is needed to make sure that they are constantly reminded WHY 5e is needed so quickly.

That someone doesn't have to be Monte Cook, but I felt a lot *expletive deleted*ing better when it was.

UngeheuerLich · Apr 26, 2012

Yeah, at least we got one good thing out of it. A date. How bad it is just 1 week after d3 realease... so most probably, noone will actually have time to playtest.

So back to topic: sorry to hear someone leaving a big project. However I honestly believe, the team under mike mearls will build a great game. And I guess, Monte has already done a great job. We really don´t know what his issues were... why just don´t wait for a month and see what the game those people produced is like?

Stoat · Apr 26, 2012

gweinel said:
Now i see what wizard meant about unifing all the dnd player's. They are gonna produce all the previous editions so all the players will gonna buy their favorite edition and then the company gonna produce the 5e which will be the continuity of the 4e.

Whatever else happens, I guarantee you that on May 25, there will be a thread here saying that 5E looks too much like 4E and a thread here saying that 5E looks too much like 3E.

talok55 · Apr 26, 2012

I doubt that the playtesting is going to be as open and inclusive as we were first led to believe. It seems only a handful of people plus some more that went to cons have got to playtest 5E so far. So unless the next round of playtesting doesn't make the testers sign NDAs, most of us will still be just as in the dark a month from now as we are now.

Vyvyan Basterd · Apr 26, 2012

Azgulor said:
This was the part that caught my eye as well. It kind of shoots the idea that this was a contractual decision that WotC could see coming. Still possible, but less likely.

It's quite possible that Mike, even as team lead, isn't involved in contract negotiations. That could be the responsibility of executive-level members of the company. His surprise at Monte's decision could be based on the fact that neither Monte or executive HR would disclose contract and/or pay negotiations with him.

Janaxstrus said:
Without any sort of dissent on a 4e-centric design team, no, people won't get over it.

Heck, as I typed this someone suggested another 4e person join the team.

SOMEONE is needed that those of us that disliked 4e and most everything it brought to the table, could trust to see our side of things. Someone is needed to keep the 4e team from patting each other on the back and giving us more of the same. Someone is needed to make sure that they are constantly reminded WHY 5e is needed so quickly.

That someone doesn't have to be Monte Cook, but I felt a lot *expletive deleted*ing better when it was.

I understand your concerns, but at the same time you seem to be assuming that the remaining team members are disingenous about their desire to incorporate fan feedback. You seem to assume that your voice won't be heard. 4E fans were feeling the same way recently and were told that they were unfounded in their concerns. I won't say your concerns are unfounded, but the team does still have people who worked on 3.X and have promised to listen to fans of all editions, so until they break that promise I think they at least deserve cautious benefit-of-doubt. And what do you have to lose if they break their promise anyway? They have everything to lose, you get free playtest materials.