The Sky is Not Falling

NewJeffCT · Apr 26, 2012

Well, it always hurts when a lead designer leaves, but I don't think it's a death knell or anything like that for 5E. I was not really impressed with some of Monte's early musings on 5E after he had signed on to be a part of the team - at least a few of them sounded like he was stuck in 3E and had forgotten that 4E existed, meaning his idea took a 3E idea and proposed a solution that sounded similar to 4E.

And, I don't favor any one edition over another. Each edition has its good and its bad - 4E is great in terms of DM prep time, while 3.5E was great in allowing players a lot of flexibility.

concjo · Apr 26, 2012

Regardless of the who it is or what he worked on previously, it is always TERRI-BAD when a lead designer quits. He has a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears put into the product by now and it must have been something really bad to make him quit now.

Second, Monte represented hope to those of us that did not like 4E. Since all of the designers left are basically running the show, it looks bad to me. If this is anything close to the TOTAL FAILURE that was 4E, it will tank AGAIN.

Not to say that will happen, simply because Monte left, but it does make the people I know a bit queezy thinking that the "team" that ruined dnd with 4E are now running the asylum.

Alzrius · Apr 26, 2012

avin said:
Yes, he is, and I like his job in 3E Psionics...

...but he also worked on "Die, Vecna, die" which it's far far far away from what I'm expecting for DDN.

Actually, Die Vecna Die! was an awesome adventure, and a great send-off for 2E. If Fifth Edition can be anything like that, I might be interested in it.

Mattachine · Apr 26, 2012

If I didn't know anything about any of the designers, it wouldn't much change my thoughts/hopes/opinions for 5e.

Moving on . . .

Bedrockgames · Apr 26, 2012

kevtar said:
The recent announcement that Monte Cook has left the design and development team for D&DNext is surprising and disappointing, but I think we need to keep a sense of perspective. Monte and the rest of the team are professionals and I believe they are going to do what is best for their careers and the game - meaning I don't think any of them will intentionally "tank" D&D and while I appreciated Monte's presence on the design team, his leaving 5e can be both good for him and for 5e.

Responses that 5e is "Doomed" or "5e RIP" are a little over the top. While Monte is a talented and respected designer with strong ties to D&D, he is not D&D. D&D is more than any single designer - even more than Gary (gasp! I know, I know... but it's true).

With that said, speculation will come and go as to why Monte left and what this will mean for the next iteration of the game, but I believe that the strategy and action plan for the development of 5e, while being largely managed and influenced by Monte, is much larger than Monte and will survive without him. I have faith in Schwalb, Rodney-Thompson, Mearls and the gang, and until I see evidence to suggest otherwise, I am going to maintain my existing level of enthusiasm for 5e and humbly suggest we all do the same.

It is true the sky isn't falling. But for those of us who wrote off D&D because of 4E, Cook appeared to be the one looking out for the interests of pre-4E fans in the new edition. His departure raises questions about whether they are going to take the game in more of a 4E direction (obviousky we don't know this though because we don't know why he left). So I think this is a huge PR blow to D&D Next. Suddenly the design team is entirely made up of people with ties to 4E and many of us are left wondering if that won't color the final product. Judging by the cheers from some 4E fans over this news, I don't think this is a wild conclusion.

Janaxstrus · Apr 26, 2012

You can SAY the sky isn't falling, but when the one guy you think you can trust to not let 5e become 4.5e leaves the design team?

That's a big ol' chunk of sky beginning it's descent.

And for the extra kick in the twig and berries, it's been less than 24 hours, and we are already back to discussing healing surges in the blog articles.
My expectations for the next edition are pretty low, my interest is waning and I have the sinking feeling that it will be another edition of D&D: Tactics

avin · Apr 26, 2012

Alzrius said:
Actually, Die Vecna Die! was an awesome adventure, and a great send-off for 2E. If Fifth Edition can be anything like that, I might be interested in it.

I would assume you're not a Planescape fan, then

Die Vecna Die was too intrusive and took liberties that displeased a lot of people.

Monte Cook, on the other hand, made one of the best PS modules, Dead Gods.

I don't see DDN fluff going into a direction I would like.

Just hope I'm wrong.

Ahnehnois · Apr 26, 2012

Dragonblade said:
I just saw Mearls' response on WotC's site. This bit is interesting (the bold is mine):

Interesting. So it seems like Monte quit because he didn't get his way. That could be good or bad, I guess depending what his way was and what the fan's way was, and which personally fits your preference.

I consider Monte a solid designer, but for something like D&DN, where inclusivity and fan input is the entire point of the project, then following one designer's vision is the wrong way to go.

In that case Monte was right to quit if he felt strongly that D&DN should follow only his vision. He'd be happier doing an OGL game that he was completely in charge of.

Be that as it may, the design goals for 5e appear to be radically different from 4e (the inclusivity aspect especially). Monte Cook was the only major non-4e voice in there, and was essentially expected to be a champion of the sort of popular opinion which had previously been ignored. If whoever's left says that one voice can't rule over the others, I can't see that the loss of the most critical voice in the room, the one with a history of designing with and for the fans, is a good thing. And frankly, even Cook seemed to be pandering pretty hard to the 4e crowd. Who on the design team at this point speaks for D&D?

WarlockLord · Apr 26, 2012

We still have Mike Mearls.

That does not fill me with confidence.

Dausuul · Apr 26, 2012

I don't think Wizards had warning of this. Mike Mearls sounded utterly blindsided. Maybe he shouldn't have been, but he was. I think there was a colossal fight about something and it was just the last straw for Monte, and he walked. What issues had been piling up, and how much warning Monte gave ahead of time that the last straw was near... who knows? Some folks do a slow burn on the inside for weeks or months, then explode. I don't know Monte, but it wouldn't surprise me if he was one of those folks.

As for what all this means for the future of D&D: I see no reason to get into speculation about the rules. IMO, that's why Mearls announced the playtest, so the swirl of speculation wouldn't turn into a firestorm of "OMG MONTE LEFT BECAUSE THEY'RE RUINING 5E." We don't have to wonder about the shape of 5E any more. In a month, we'll know.

I do agree that it's a bad sign when your lead designer walks out. But we don't yet know what it's a sign of. If it's an issue with the direction the rules were taking, hopefully Monte will enlighten us once the playtest starts and the NDA comes off. If not... we'll just have to see.

The Sky is Not Falling

NewJeffCT

First Post

concjo

First Post

Alzrius

The EN World kitten

Mattachine

Adventurer

Bedrockgames

Legend

Janaxstrus

First Post

avin

First Post

Ahnehnois

First Post

WarlockLord

First Post

Dausuul

Legend

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