The Sky is Not Falling

Alzrius said:

I am, in fact, a big fan of Planescape...which is why I keep scratching my head whenever I hear another PS fan going on about how awful DVD was.

"Too intrusive"? "Took liberties"? What exactly did DVD do that upset so many of the PS fans?

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I think a lot of it has to do with the elimination of a lot of the factions. It's like being a sports fan and then your favorite team is kicked out of the league.

I think the silver lining is that Monte left early in the project. Whether you like him as a designer or not, the worst thing that could have happened is if he persisted in a project he didn't believe in. Game designers need to be enthusiastic about their work to do their best, and if he had simply tried to persevere through whatever it was that annoyed him about his contract he would not have produced his best work.

My opinion is that he would have been a good influence on the system, especially with Mearls in charge, but it's a good thing for us that he bowed out with grace early on, rather than halfway through.

Incenjucar said:

I think a lot of it has to do with the elimination of a lot of the factions. It's like being a sports fan and then your favorite team is kicked out of the league.

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That was Faction War, not Die Vecna Die.

Hated, Hated, Hated Faction War for what it did to the Factions. And it's a pretty good module!

Die Vecna Die? Well, if it offended we Cagers it was the implication that Vecna had a higher Mary-Sue quotient than the Lady, in a "could Superman lift Thor's hammer" sort of way.

I just hate/loathe/despise the idea of Vecna as a god at all. But that's an argument for a different thread.

Whoah, interesting OP.

People, just take a big breath and let's just this thing on what we see.

Pitting designers against each other, editions against each other is going to get this whole thing nowhere. It certainly isn't making Enworld a nice place to be.

Yes, we have a voice and we have the internet to voice it, but take a break from this negativity. I am sure "Healing Surges" was a blog post for some time. From what I can see all current designers have talked about and provided egs from all editions.

I loved Monte's DMing advice especially and I wish him luck with whatever he moves onto, and in the same breath wish the designers left all the best too. Must be hard to design a game with all the negativity (and yet we want them to visit here). In negativity I don't mean no constructive criticism - but there has been little of that and we have little to criticise. Let's base this on the game we see....not going to go on, Mudhoney said it best - "Overblown". Chill pills for sale.

Savage Wombat said:

That was Faction War, not Die Vecna Die.

Hated, Hated, Hated Faction War for what it did to the Factions. And it's a pretty good module!

Die Vecna Die? Well, if it offended we Cagers it was the implication that Vecna had a higher Mary-Sue quotient than the Lady, in a "could Superman lift Thor's hammer" sort of way.

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Ah. My mistake. Vecna never interested me so I never read anything involving him. Thanks for the correction.

avin said:

Ok then, a "God" in Sigil won't be a problem to me. I don't think the Lady could prevent all forms a God would have to enter Sigil but she would have the power to deal with that without the help of adventurers. THAT is largely against what *I* and many others think makes sense with the rest of PS.

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We're looking at this differently, I suspect. As she was (that is, without taking more drastic action) she was evenly matched with Vecna (who was a greater god at the time, and devoting almost everything he had just to keep even with her). The adventurers just needed to step in and tip the balance in her favor.

You've mentioned FW's ending... nobody seem to cared much? You and me must be browsing the wrong places then... FW is largely controversial and even ignored but a lot of DMs. Really lame final scene.

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I'm so tired of people saying X is true for "a lot of DMs" as though they've personally conducted the poll. I haven't heard of how Faction War's ending is "largely controversial" beyond some people saying they miss the factions.

From what I heard, the bigger controversy was how the 3E Manual of the Planes mentioned that the factions were in Sigil, which threw a lot of people for a loop (especially with the designers saying how, had the line continued, they'd have brought the factions back).

The same goes for her "true form", heck, people at Planewalker adapted DVD to something less intrusive.

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See above. I haven't seen the Planewalker adaptation, but then I don't think it's necessary.

You don't agree with me. I don't agree with you. None of us hold the definitive truth. And that's it, but as you said, we better stop hijacking this

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For the record, it's poor "netiquette" to engage in a debate and then end with a call for people to stop talking about it. If you want to discuss an issue, discuss it. If you don't want to, just say so (or don't post on it at all). But engaging in it and then suggesting that everyone let you have the last word is just making a poor showing of yourself.

Savage Wombat said:

Die Vecna Die? Well, if it offended we Cagers it was the implication that Vecna had a higher Mary-Sue quotient than the Lady, in a "could Superman lift Thor's hammer" sort of way.

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Did you ever see the JLA/Avengers crossover? They really managed to have their cake and eat it too with that one.

Alzrius said:

For the record, it's poor "netiquette" to engage in a debate and then end with a call for people to stop talking about it. If you want to discuss an issue, discuss it. If you don't want to, just say so (or don't post on it at all). But engaging in it and then suggesting that everyone let you have the last word is just making a poor showing of yourself.

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Er... what was your last word on the previous topic? "[/threadjack]"? It reads "we better move back to the original topic here" to me, so I was just agreeing with you, not calling you to stop.

Ok then, the controversial part on FW ending in my opinion was more than the faction's ending. I've read people saying that The Lady should never step in and make a Dabus speak in the name of her. And I'm not alone on this opinion.

As for "controversial", my web access is kinda limited but DVD and FW were always subject of discussion: Did the Faction War and Vecna kill Planescape? | Planewalker

I'm sure you'll be able to find topics of people saying they refuse to DM post FW games, the same way some people refuses to DM post Time of Troubles FR games.

Crossover comic books? Man, now you really want to get into stormy waters JLA/Avengers is not my cup of tea... the last crossover I really liked was X-Men vs Teen Titans...

Mouseferatu said:

I just hate/loathe/despise the idea of Vecna as a god at all. But that's an argument for a different thread.

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See? Vecna REALLY must die

I agree with the OT. After seeing play test 1.0 I believe the team is on to something really good .