D&D 5E Of Fighters and Sammiches

Based on the title, I was expecting a twist on Orc and Pie. But this is good, too!

Swiss cheese ought to be strictly a Paladin/Cleric ingredient!

OnlineDM said:

Based on the title, I was expecting a twist on Orc and Pie. But this is good, too!

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I thought it might be a rant against 3.5 wizards; I seem to recall a discussion back in those days of running sentient ham sandwich spellcasters (via LA or polymorph, I forget which), and I thought this might be the "sammification" (rant against) of the fighter in 5E as the sidelined (polymorphed) sidekick of the wizard (i.e., being so subservient to the wizard that the wizard could turn the fighter into a sandwich, eat him, and finish the adventure out all by his lonesome).

Though, relevant to this discussion - should the 5E fighter be a "hero" or a "sub"?

(and cheese for the paladin/cleric should only be viable if it comes from Holy Cows)

Stormonu said:

I thought it might be a rant against 3.5 wizards; I seem to recall a discussion back in those days...

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I wish I could give you more XP, because this is awesome.

Honestly though? I expected loud, public outcry about my depiction of 3.x and 4E fighters in the original post. But I stand by it. I really do hope they move away from the anything-goes, build-your-own rules smorgassboard of 3.X, and I hope they do a complete 180 from the modernized, sauce-drenched wrap-up of 4E.

I just overlooked the incorrect statements about editions you don't care for. I'm getting pretty bored with edition warring nonsense and just filter it out as noise.

Won't kill me if you're just wrong.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

JulianFedrer said:

This is really the best thing to have!

link removed by moderator

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reported.

Mod Note: Hint - if you're replying to a spammer to note a report in-thread, please *remove* the links! Otherwise, even if we ban the spammer, they get much of what they wanted out of the exercise. ~Umbran

We want the Fighter to be the elite warrior. That means we leave the white bread to the poor schmuck NPC classes and the store bought to the hired men-at-arms. Gourmet Swiss Pikemen must be a viable option from the starting choices. And that isn't just melee we're melting on. Our archery skills are real Turkish Archers between those layers of fresh bakery bread. And while there is probably some purist who wants a dollop of mayo from a Bohemian Ear-Spoon, I'd be glad to leave it out as a general rule.

CleverNickName said:

So I will be watching the new 5E deli with interest...I love a good sammich, after all. And when it finally opens for business, the first thing I am going to do is roll up a turkey & swiss and take a good, thick bite out of it. And from that first, hopefully delicious bite, I will be able to tell a lot about the quality of the deli: is it the sort of place that uses Oscar Mayer lunch meat, smothers everything in Kraft mayo, and needs excessive toppings and "secret sauce" to give it flavor? or do they smoke their own turkey out back and bake their own bread every morning and it tastes so good I don't even notice they forgot the mayo?

From their recent design goals, it sounds like I am in store for a tasty sandwich indeed. I just hope they resist the urge to use bulk meats and cheeses from the warehouse grocery, or drown it in "special sauce" or whatever.

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Well, I did it. I had driven by the 5E Deli several times over the last few months, and I noticed that they had turkey sandwiches on the menu, but I put off ordering one until I had time to actually sit down and enjoy one. And last night, I finally got the opportunity--to actually PLAY, instead of being the DM.

So I pulled up to the new October 5E Delicatessen the minute it opened. I walked in, and read the menu for several hours. Then I rolled up a Fighter with swiss on whole wheat like always (I was hungry, so I rolled up a 3rd level sandwich.) I grabbed my dice bag, and waited for my order to arrive.

Well, I'll be darned if it wasn't another one of those trendy turkey and swiss salad wraps on gluten free bread, with a side of movie theater popcorn. *sigh* It wasn't really what I had in mind, but I thought, hey, it's a new deli and they are still perfecting their craft. And lots of people like these salad wrap-thingies, after all. So I bit in, and played a few hours of an adventure that my friend Allen had cooked up for us.

I like the turkey...very moist. It's kind of hard to get this part wrong, honestly: fighters whack their enemies with weapons, and then there is pie. Pretty straightforward. Getting bonuses to my ability scores simply by choosing a career was strange at first, but I decided that it wasn't too bad after I chewed on it for a while. And they slow-smoked the meats with Advantage/Disadvantage mechanics, which taste much, much better than that complex, stacking-bonus-marinade that my 3.5E Deli uses.

And the cheese is decent too...even though it wasn't really Swiss. It was more like a blend of the 3.5E swiss and 4E brie. The backgrounds and themes are nice and creamy indeed, but I think I would have preferred just a couple slices of class skills. Oh well, not a deal-breaker.

But they forgot the mayo. Instead, they gave me lots of "special sauce," and I do mean LOTS of it. Why, oh why, do delis these days feel the need to slather their sandwiches with the same old magical sauce? Wizards and clerics, sure. Rangers maybe, if you are in the mod. But why do fighters need pseudo-magic mayo? Sure, you can call it "mayo," or "miracle whip," or "special sauce" or "dressing" or even "maneuvers," but we all know what it ISN'T. And it isn't mayonnaise. A tangy, fruity blend of encounter powers aren't really what I wanted on my sandwich. I just wanted a little dab of mayo...a little bit of weapon mastery, perhaps, at the very most. Not a floral bouquet of weird spices and aromatics that overpower the meat and cheese.

And why the flatbread? Seriously, why? Why must everything be flattened down and pressed into squares? I want a tabletop RPG sandwich, not a boardgame burrito with weird fillings. Sure, I can unwrap it, cut it in half, and stack the ingredients so that it more closely resembles a sandwich, but we both know how that works. It's sloppy, hard to eat, and halfway through it you will wish you hadn't.

My conclusion: it was a good sandwich. The price was right, it was very filling, and it was a nice change of pace--but it really wasn't what I had in mind when I roll up a Fighter. Maybe the other sandwiches on the menu are better--but in my experience, if a deli doesn't do a simple turkey and swiss the way I like it, the other sandwiches will follow suit.

So I'm going to keep driving across town for the 3.5E sandwich I have grown to love. But I'm not going to write them off completely; I will stop in every now and then when I'm in the mood for something a little more modern or exotic, just like I do with the 4E and Pathfinder Deli.

Sure, you can call it "mayo," or "miracle whip," or "special sauce" or "dressing" or even "maneuvers," but we all know what it ISN'T. And it isn't mayonnaise. A tangy, fruity blend of encounter powers aren't really what I wanted on my sandwich.

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Just to be clear, your expertise dice refresh every round, so your maneuvers aren't "encounter powers" in any sense. You can use them every round if you want. To me, CS maneuvers feel more like a less math-heavy version of 3e feats like Power Attack than a 4e-style "powers" system. But of course, your taste is your own.

And why the flatbread? Seriously, why? Why must everything be flattened down and pressed into squares?

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I take it this is a reference to grid-based combat? I don't really see it in the 5e fighter. There's one maneuver that knocks a guy back 10ft and another that lets you move an extra 10ft before or after an attack, but those both sound more like 3e feats than 4e movement powers to me. (The push one is basically a useful version of Improved Bull Rush.) If anything, I'd say 5e is a lot LESS grid-centric than 3e or 3.5e, since they've gotten rid of 90% of attacks of opportunity and stuff like flanking.

ZombieRoboNinja said:

Just to be clear, your expertise dice refresh every round, so your maneuvers aren't "encounter powers" in any sense. You can use them every round if you want. To me, CS maneuvers feel more like a less math-heavy version of 3e feats like Power Attack than a 4e-style "powers" system. But of course, your taste is your own.

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I'm not sure this is better. It's like they put secret sauce on the wrap, and then serve it with a side of extra sauce to dip it in while you eat it.

ZombieRoboNinja said:

I take it this is a reference to grid-based combat? I don't really see it in the 5e fighter. There's one maneuver that knocks a guy back 10ft and another that lets you move an extra 10ft before or after an attack, but those both sound more like 3e feats than 4e movement powers to me.

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To be fair, the flatbread (grid-based game) started way back in 2E, and really came to the forefront with the advent of 3E. And I play 3.5E more than any other edition these days. So the flatbread sandwich is not unique to 5E. I was just hoping this deli would be different, that's all.

But like I said: it's a good sandwich, and I'm sure it will be very popular. It's not exactly what I had in mind, and that's probably more my fault than anything else. But that's okay; I know where to go to get the turkey & swiss just the way I like it.