A
Save or suck Medusa petrification
vagabundo
Adventurer
This is the problem though. DND Medusa race is not the Mythic Medusa. It's loosely based on the mythic one, but it's its' own thing.
Medusa's sisters looked similar to her but could not turn people to stone.
IronWolf
blank
Okay, you don't like the mechanics for the Medusa.
How would you mechanically represent the Medusa's ability to turn people to stone and keep the game the way you would want it mechanically?
Sanglorian
Adventurer
The problem with Save or Suck powers is that their very extremism encourages work-arounds. Everyone in a fight against the medusa is going to avert their eyes, because the alternative is too extreme. The result? No one is in any danger of turning to stone.
Even if people are surprised or do peek, the mythological/pop culture expectation that someone turns instantly to stone is lost with the relatively low saving throw DC. And even if people do turn to stone, the Caves of Chaos medusa comes conveniently with a potion of depetrification!
The end result is that far from being consequential and frightening, petrification is either an inconvenience (disadvantage for a whole combat) or a road-bump. What could be very cool ('Jimmy's turning slowly to stone! We've got to break the medusa's gaze somehow!' or 'She's pulling Anne's head around and if we don't break the grapple their eyes will meet!'') becomes a slog as everyone averts their eyes and misses an awful lot more, or just shrugs their shoulders at the occasional petrified ally and slathers the victims with depetrification potion at the end of the fight.
Even if people are surprised or do peek, the mythological/pop culture expectation that someone turns instantly to stone is lost with the relatively low saving throw DC. And even if people do turn to stone, the Caves of Chaos medusa comes conveniently with a potion of depetrification!
The end result is that far from being consequential and frightening, petrification is either an inconvenience (disadvantage for a whole combat) or a road-bump. What could be very cool ('Jimmy's turning slowly to stone! We've got to break the medusa's gaze somehow!' or 'She's pulling Anne's head around and if we don't break the grapple their eyes will meet!'') becomes a slog as everyone averts their eyes and misses an awful lot more, or just shrugs their shoulders at the occasional petrified ally and slathers the victims with depetrification potion at the end of the fight.
If the medusa is supposed to be the same thing as in the original myth, and have a save or die petrifying attack, I want the gods to personally help me to defeat her by giving me their godly powerful magic items.
A save or die medusa of myth was not found in a cavern in the caves of chaos or a random dungeon encounter. She was a creature of god-like power that everyone knew and tried to avoid.
A save or die medusa of myth was not found in a cavern in the caves of chaos or a random dungeon encounter. She was a creature of god-like power that everyone knew and tried to avoid.
IronWolf
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So is this advocating that everyone needs to try to make the save with no chance to avert their eyes?
Sanglorian said:
Would you have been happier with a higher DC? I would be all for a higher DC, but I can understand the lower one representing that when you decided to take your peek that she happened to be looking at another party member, was turned to the side or some explanation such as that.
As for the potion. This is one adventure, it isn't a requirement to provide a potion of depetrification if the DM was building their own adventure. So in this case, it is an inconvenience, but that might not be the case all of the time.
As I asked earlier - what would be your mechanical suggestion for handling the medusa's special ability to turn people to stone?
Fanaelialae
Legend
Well, there are multiple options here, but off the top of my head I'd probably use an hp threshold mechanic.
Basically, characters below X hp turn to stone if they see her. Characters at or above X hp are lucky enough to sense something is amiss and only catch a glimpse from the corner of their eye, resulting in being restrained rather than petrified, as their body stiffens.
That removes the gotcha factor (unless a PC didn't heal after taking damage, which is itself a choice). But it's very unlikely that half the party will be petrified in the first round, unless they're pressing forward when they should be retreating.
Walking Dad
First Post
Sanglorian already said it. A risk has to be worth taking or nobody is taking. And the situation in the adventure had none of the statue garden or other things that could give clever players a hint that they should avert their eyes.
First action from me as a DM if I ever run this adventure? Give the medusa some brains and let her spout the potion on the floor. Why should she carry around the single remedy of her best weapon?
And why would she even carry one in that situation???
First action from me as a DM if I ever run this adventure? Give the medusa some brains and let her spout the potion on the floor. Why should she carry around the single remedy of her best weapon?
And why would she even carry one in that situation???
Walking Dad
First Post
This:
Or using the 4e mechanic.
Or the one in Mutants and Masterminds 3e (cumulative saving throws with degrees of failure, migrated by the core use of a re-roll mechanic).
Almost all mechanics I know are better than this.
stevelabny
Explorer
Disclaimer for conversation for all previous and future responses: I saw the medusa statblock in the bestiary, I did not read the Caves of Chaos yet. I don't know if it is a GOTCHA as presented or not.
Anywho, to specifically respond to this... I'm not even saying the 5e medusa is great, I'm saying that I was happy to see save or sucks/dies brought back. But even as written, there's tons of ways to avoid the "road-bump" you describe.
Have something else in the room besides a medusa. Other monsters who are now picking on your disadvantage? A key or a small moving object players have to find before the medusa can finish a ritual or kill her prisoner?
WHERE IS IT? I dunno, I'm looking at my feet. WELL, LOOK AROUND??? Are you kidding me, there's a freakin medusa in the room...you look around. Will the adventurers risk looking around the room to find the item or save the princess or whatever? Or will their fear saves their lives, but ensure a "failed" mission?
As always, if a solo monster is the only thing in the room...something has most likely gone horribly wrong.
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