Opinions - IPad 2 or 3?

Umbran said:

Are you sure that's the nature of Win 8, or just the Metro interface?

It makes seven kinds of sense to me to have two different interaction modes for such a device.

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Win8 has 2 modes, Metro (now renamed to something I can't recall) and Desktop. Metro is equivalent to the Start button. If you launch a Metro-app, you'll stay in Metro presentation mode. if you launch a legacy app, it'll flip to desktop mode.

Desktop mode looks like normal Win7. For the record, Win8 is based on Win7. Only Metro-mode changes the API stack. When you flip to Desktop mode, you are basically running Win7. They just turn some stuff off to slip you back to Metro as fast as they can.


Like iOS or Android, Metro is made for doing one thing at a time, with some basic task swapping available. Good enough for somebody googling while watching TV. Not good enough for somebody trying to run Visual Studio to write a program, with SQL Server Management Studio open to manipulate the database and IE open with 10 tabs open to research a problem with something plus Outlook, an IM client, and Explorer to look at the file system you are manipulating with your code.

In other news, my buddy just bought a Google Nexus 7 for $250 w/16GB. He likes it. He is an iPhone user normally. The price was the factor for him. He figured he could live without being able to share apps across devices (its not like they're expensive).

He did not cite any reason that struck me as "only Android" could do that, as compared to iOS. Which is something to remember when we get into nerdy debates about the merits of each OS. Most normal people aren't interested or are less impacted by the details that we think are important, like storage expansion slots (the Nexus7 has none, btw). the app stores are over flowing with stuff, the probability of their NOT being an app a normal person needs is low. There's knitting apps for Pete's sake.

I suspect normal people care about:
is it easy to figure out?
is it durable?
Does it do what I think I want to do (which it turns out is pretty basic and less than what nerds expect)?
Does it look good?
Is there a cheaper model?

I think there are cheaper alternatives from Asus (I think it's called the eeSlate or somesuch). I did not go for that one because I am using my Slate as a sketchbook for drawing/painting on the tablet as well and since the Samsung has a Wacom digitizer that was the first choice for me. But the biggest plus for me was always that I can have multiple applications open at the same time and that I can easily switch between them. This is something you just cannot do with iOS or Droid.

But yes, if you just want to "consume" then an iPad/Droid tablet would be enough.

By the way, if you want to read up on all things tabletey then I can recommend this site here: Tablet PC Reviews - Best Tablet PCs

Jupp said:

I think there are cheaper alternatives from Asus (I think it's called the eeSlate or somesuch). I did not go for that one because I am using my Slate as a sketchbook for drawing/painting on the tablet as well and since the Samsung has a Wacom digitizer that was the first choice for me. But the biggest plus for me was always that I can have multiple applications open at the same time and that I can easily switch between them. This is something you just cannot do with iOS or Droid.

But yes, if you just want to "consume" then an iPad/Droid tablet would be enough.

By the way, if you want to read up on all things tabletey then I can recommend this site here: Tablet PC Reviews - Best Tablet PCs

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I'd be curious to know how switching apps in Win8 is "easier" than iOS. Or how having multiple apps open is better. I don't mean this in an argumentative way. I haven't spent time with Win8's UI.

For comparison, on iOS, I just double-click the Home button and get to the task manager. Switching apps is relatively easy.

However, that's not as awesome as seeing what apps I'm running on the Taskbar in Windows. Or having 2 apps visible at the same time so i can read from one, to do something on the other. It's also a PITA to copy/paste text from one (like a login name or code snippet) in iOS. Much easier to have a mouse to lasso the text I want.

And "consume" isn't quite a useful term. Metro apps are also intended for the "consumption" mindset. Browsing web pages, watching videos for instance.

But I can use a spreadsheet to manage my D&D character on my iPad (works better than laptop). or record an album with GarageBand.

Where the tablet paradigm fails is in the heavy data entry and maniplation area. Writing your term paper on an iPad would suck. Writing code sucks when you're used to 2 large screens, high resolution and a mouse/keyboard to copy/paste code quickly. remote controlling a PC (remote desktop) also sucks. I use an RDP app to control my servers if there's a problem when I'm away from work. But I'd rather have a large screen and a mouse/keyboard to do so.

Jupp said:

But yes, if you just want to "consume" then an iPad/Droid tablet would be enough.[/url]

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Heh... consume does have some ugly connotations, doesn't it? I mean "read". I'm not going to write my novel or code for work on it. I guess I don't see the point of a tablet you could do that on, ie I don't see tablets as a replacement for traditional laptops.

My wife's an artist and she's made some nice images on her iPad using AutoDesk's Sketchbook app. It's pretty cool.

Janx said:

I'd be curious to know how switching apps in Win8 is "easier" than iOS. Or how having multiple apps open is better. I don't mean this in an argumentative way. I haven't spent time with Win8's UI.

For comparison, on iOS, I just double-click the Home button and get to the task manager. Switching apps is relatively easy.

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Sorry I was not clear on this but I am not running Windows 8 on my Slate. I have Win 7 installed so it is working like on a standard PC just that you have touch input and/or a pen to draw/write. Of course when I need to write a lot of text I use the bluetooth keyboard and the docking stand.

I've only tested Win 8 for a week or so. Win8 only is different in that is is basically built for tablet devices and it is quite near to Windows Mobile in how it feels and looks.

Switching apps might be possible with iOS but the problem for me is that the app gets hibernated when you put it on the background. It is not real multitasking as far as I know and this is one of the big things that pulled me away from iOS and Droid. I want and need to be able to have multiple applications open at the same time because my Slate not only acts as a "reading/consuming/whatever" device but also as a full replacement for an actual notebook or desktop PC. Because I hate to have too many devices at the same time. It tends to end up with one catching dust in a corner shortly after.

Mallus said:

My wife's an artist and she's made some nice images on her iPad using AutoDesk's Sketchbook app. It's pretty cool.

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Yep, I have Sketchbook Pro and Painter installed on my Slate as well. It's just great to start a sketch on the tablet and then continue the drawing on the desktop later on with the Cintiq.

Jupp said:

Sorry I was not clear on this but I am not running Windows 8 on my Slate. I have Win 7 installed so it is working like on a standard PC just that you have touch input and/or a pen to draw/write. Of course when I need to write a lot of text I use the bluetooth keyboard and the docking stand.

I've only tested Win 8 for a week or so. Win8 only is different in that is is basically built for tablet devices and it is quite near to Windows Mobile in how it feels and looks.

Switching apps might be possible with iOS but the problem for me is that the app gets hibernated when you put it on the background. It is not real multitasking as far as I know and this is one of the big things that pulled me away from iOS and Droid. I want and need to be able to have multiple applications open at the same time because my Slate not only acts as a "reading/consuming/whatever" device but also as a full replacement for an actual notebook or desktop PC. Because I hate to have too many devices at the same time. It tends to end up with one catching dust in a corner shortly after.

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well, multi-tasking versus task swapping may still be a misnomer. You only have one keyboard, and that keyboard is only addressing the current active application. As a human, you are not multi-tasking on a computer most of the time.

true multi-tasking on a computer comes into play when App1 is actually crunching some data, while you go work with App2. Downloading files, calculating Pi, converting data is the kind of thing where letting App1 work while you do something else in App2 is useful multi-tasking. Note that watching a video and working on something else would also count as multi-tasking (the App needs to continually update the screen, despite the user not actively working in it).

but what you may be needing is to SEE both App1 and App2 (app1 might be a web browser with information you need, and App2 is the program you are trying to use that information in) that still doesn't necessarily mean you are multi-tasking in the most meaningful sense of the word. The number of clock cycles App1 is consuming is minimal. What's most important is being able to SEE both the apps at the same time. You aren't actively engaging App1. And if you do, suspending App2 to hop to App1 is not a big deal if the transition back and forth is quick. Emphasis on quick.

the ability to see 2 Apps at once is where the tablet OSes (iOS/Android) are missing. It is an intentional design trait, as most basic users on a PC would maximize their apps anyway. Few people browse on a 15" or smaller screen with Outlook, IE and MSN visible all at the same time. Take that lesson to an iPhone, and it's a simple enough design concession.

However, as I've seen in Win8 Metro presentations, it DOES have a multi-app on screen mode without "windows". When a user drags or however to bring in the second app, they can do a 50/50 split, or 1/4 to 3/4 split of the two apps. This covers the simple use case of "I need to SEE App1 while using App2" Metro does this locked window sizing, rather than letting the user futz with dragging window sizes until they are happy.

I don't know if the OP has now picked up his new iPad, whichever version he was eying. Just thought I'd point out that a rumored launch/refresh of Apple's product lines is probably coming/to be announced in Sept.

Why you should wait for the iPad Mini | Mobile - CNET News

Which includes the potential for a 7in. iPad, which may be far cheaper and to his liking.

Umbran said:

Are you sure that's the nature of Win 8, or just the Metro interface?

It makes seven kinds of sense to me to have two different interaction modes for such a device.

Click to expand...

From what I've read Umbran, I believe there are two models of Win8 tablet coming, the lower cost will compete directly with it's brethren as a purely mobile tablet device, runs on the ARM chipset, and you are locked into the "Metro" UI only. The more expensive version, (running around $1000, could be less or more costly), will be a full computer in tablet form, and can go to a traditional desktop UI, and can have programs installed in desktop fashion.. although it lacks a cd/dvd drive, so it'll require either software only installers most likely. At least that's what I've read on several gadget sites. Perhaps that info is out of date however..?

CAFRedblade said:

Which includes the potential for a 7in. iPad, which may be far cheaper and to his liking.

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No... still haven't bought anything yet... anniversary dinner was rather expensive... feeling guilty about spending money right now. This, I assure you, will not last...

I wasn't considering a 7' tablet, since I want to use it for reading comics and gaming manuals. They benefit from more screen real estate.