Revolution

Hand of Evil · Oct 2, 2012

While those things are out there, the question is where. Just see them as pockets, they are not going to be common.

Take the Quakers and Amish in PA, they could last a good bit but would be seen as easy targets by any one leaving the east coast, odds are they would be wiped out or enslaved in the first 5 years.

Population would drop fast in 15 years, maybe down to 2 billion in that time frame. People would leave the cities, in droves. Most would only make 200 to 300 miles before dying, do to exposure, illness and other people. Then you have random events, nuke power plants blowing up but also rail cars carrying stuff like chloride, then wild fires, floods.

15 years is a good point, I can see this point as the turn around. People are not just trying to make it from day to day but also now thinking about re-building some of the stuff they lost.

Dannyalcatraz · Oct 2, 2012

Janx · Oct 2, 2012

Umbran said:
What, you got Heward's Everfull Acetylene Tank, or something? Nobody's making more of it. Nobody's pressurizing tanks of it. Nobody's shipping it around the country. Whatever is there locally is all you have to work with.

Now, maybe some of those warlords were smart enough to stockpile it, and use it for a project or two. So, maybe one of them's got a nice shiny new steam engine - good for later in the season.

it doesn't mean that there's tanks of acetelyne around 15 years later. But it does mean that in year one, some welders are going to be busy making/fixing stuff that is useful in a non-electric/motorized world. Stuff like the swords in the show (that I haven't seen).

the bikes mean that in the first years, some folks are going to be mobile still (raid the walmart for all the bikes). taken care of, they'll last for half of the 15 year timeframe (however, putting 2000 miles on your bike can cause the bearing casing to split open, as happened to my 18 speed).

Desdichado · Oct 2, 2012

After complaining and poking a bit of fun at all the pedantic nitpicking going on in this thread, I'm now going to add to it, since my professional interest happens to coincide here. Acetylene isn't really used for welding much anymore, and hasn't been for decades. It's still used for cutting but gas metal arc welding with a helium or argon shield gas has almost completely replaced acetylene except in certain niche areas. Acetylene is also highly explosive and volatile; in fact, the major supplier of acetylene in North America (from calcium carbide raw materials) in Kentucky literally blew up a couple of years ago, prompting a shortage in supply that sent us (and everyone else) scrambling for replacements. While the short-term supply issue is now past, the plant has not been rebuilt due to environmental and safety concerns--acetylene is now almost completely imported, or at least comes from imported carbide. The supply shortage also was the death knell of oxyacetylene welding processes; almost everyone who could easily transfer over to some other gas did so. We use acetylene for heat treatment furnaces, not for welding, so we were able to switch temporarily to propane, but long-term we still want to use acetylene because it greatly prolongs the life of the furnaces.

In any case, I find it difficult to believe that after 15 years of post apocalyptic conditions that there's going to be any appreciable quantities of acetylene floating around is my point.

Crothian · Oct 2, 2012

I was happy to see that a car door was not good cover and not bullet proof. So many movies and shows get that wrong. I liked seeing the true power of a sniper in a good position.

Janx · Oct 2, 2012

Hobo said:
After complaining and poking a bit of fun at all the pedantic nitpicking going on in this thread, I'm now going to add to it, since my professional interest happens to coincide here. Acetylene isn't really used for welding much anymore, and hasn't been for decades. It's still used for cutting but gas metal arc welding with a helium or argon shield gas has almost completely replaced acetylene except in certain niche areas. Acetylene is also highly explosive and volatile; in fact, the major supplier of acetylene in North America (from calcium carbide raw materials) in Kentucky literally blew up a couple of years ago, prompting a shortage in supply that sent us (and everyone else) scrambling for replacements. While the short-term supply issue is now past, the plant has not been rebuilt due to environmental and safety concerns--acetylene is now almost completely imported, or at least comes from imported carbide. The supply shortage also was the death knell of oxyacetylene welding processes; almost everyone who could easily transfer over to some other gas did so. We use acetylene for heat treatment furnaces, not for welding, so we were able to switch temporarily to propane, but long-term we still want to use acetylene because it greatly prolongs the life of the furnaces.

In any case, I find it difficult to believe that after 15 years of post apocalyptic conditions that there's going to be any appreciable quantities of acetylene floating around is my point.

Thanks for the correction on the state of welding. I haven't used a welder in quite a while.

My main point was that non-arc welding technologies would work after the event. These things would be used after the event to make stuff needed in a non-electric world. sure, 15 years later, the gas is gone. But year one, folks are getting busy making plows and weapons. things that will probably last.

NewJeffCT · Oct 3, 2012

On a different note, NBC has picked up the show for the full season because of its strong ratings.

Hand of Evil · Oct 3, 2012

Another point in this weeks show, was to talk about bass, caps and gun powder. This was an excellent way to let the veiwers know, two bits of dialog explained it.

Desdichado · Oct 3, 2012

Janx said:
Thanks for the correction on the state of welding. I haven't used a welder in quite a while.

My main point was that non-arc welding technologies would work after the event. These things would be used after the event to make stuff needed in a non-electric world. sure, 15 years later, the gas is gone. But year one, folks are getting busy making plows and weapons. things that will probably last.

Right. Absolutely right. My only point is that acetylene isn't likely to still be kicking around after 15 years. But stuff made 15 years ago certainly should be, or at least could be.

Cergorach · Oct 6, 2012

Honestly we don't know enough about what works and what doesn't. Electricity apparently doesn't work, you can't even generate it and nothing seems to hold a charge. Combustion engines don't work for some reason, not just those with electrical components. But gunpowder does work. What about lightning? What about nuclear reactions (someone mentioned those)?

15 years from 6-7 billion to 2 billion still seems a bit much, if what we saw in the latest episode is any indication, people started slaughtering each other for food. Which isn't exactly strange, I suspect that any large city would have that issue. Europe would be catastrophic, we don't produce enough to feed ourselves, but the US would also suffer greatly as you wouldn't have any machines working. Possibly third world countries would have the least issues regarding hunger, they are already used to it and survive (more or less). Most of the old would die as no new medicine is produced, pacemakers fail, infant mortality goes way up, etc. No filtered water...

After basic needs have been met (water/food/roof) we also have many folks being killed in power struggles. Heck one of the problems is the current survivalists, not the nicest people in the first place, give them guns, food and no one to reel them in. Many, many dead people, especially if your not white. I also expect that criminal organizations would have a bigger role then we've seen till now, already ruthless and organized, large arsenal of weapons...

I think that if in the west 10% survive the first couple of years, it is much.