Revolution

slobster · Sep 25, 2012

Umbran said:
Well, consider that we are only 15 years out from the blackout. The number of people who know how to work metal *without electrically driven tools* is small. The weapons they make first will be as simple as possible - and that means swords and muskets.

This is 'Merica we're talking about here. After the mass die-offs, there should be enough small arms left over to outfit every man, woman, and child like Rambo.

Umbran said:
Depends what you are talking about.

I was talking about a variant of the Fat Boy design, a gun-type Uranium fission device. From my understanding, it's quite easy to build; you need two subcritical hunks of enriched uranium (easily scavenged from the thousands of now-defunct devices protected by useless electronic security) and what is basically a cannon, which we've seen that they have the technology to build.

But hey, not a nuclear engineer here. Of course them building a nuke from scavenged parts is as believable (to me) as all the electricity in the world blinking out simultaneously and forever, so there you go.

EDIT: I've always used "nuke" as a generic slang term for nuclear weapon, with no distinction between fission and fusion devices. I've never heard anyone distinguish between the two with it before.

Hand of Evil · Sep 25, 2012

slobster said:
This is 'Merica we're talking about here. After the mass die-offs, there should be enough small arms left over to outfit every man, woman, and child like Rambo.

But as we have been shown in the two shows, the bag guys are controlling firearms, collecting and killing those with them. Yes, somewhere down the line the good guys will finds a closet full of guns, that is why the show is fore-shadowing it like they are. Stated in two shows about the law and Nora wanting the sniper rifle.

Again, it also comes down to gun powder and ammo, limited caps and good mix of black power.

slobster · Sep 25, 2012

Hand of Evil said:
Again, it also comes down to gun powder and ammo, limited caps and good mix of black power.

Ah, the old fallback of gun control. Can't control the guns so you go after the ammo.

In seriousness, yes, the firearm situation is not actually an obstacle for my suspension of disbelief. I was just pokin' fun.

Karak · Sep 25, 2012

I watched the first episode a second time and I liked it somewhat. Its not perfect but it was more enjoyable than many other shows I have seen and enjoyed.

JRRNeiklot · Sep 25, 2012

Umbran said:
Well, consider that we are only 15 years out from the blackout. The number of people who know how to work metal *without electrically driven tools* is small. The weapons they make first will be as simple as possible - and that means swords and muskets.

Considering there are about 90 guns per 100 people in the US, and a significant portion of the population is going to die when the blackout hits, there's never going to be a shortage of guns. They won't have to be made for a long, long, time. And that's not even counting guns owned by the military.

And where are the vehicles? My 72 pickup needs no electricity to function, though it does need gasoline. Diesel engines can function well enough on kitchen grease, however.

Deset Gled · Sep 25, 2012

Felon said:
Interesting how much nitpicking this show is being subjected to. Its creators have stated that they intent this to be a series with "swashbuckling" action, not details like potable water or firearm minutae. They chose the wrong genre for that.

Not saying it's an awesome show or anything, but compared to the sort of stuff that gets renewed year after year and commands a strong following here, it's about average. I mean, Castle is a thoroughly inane crime drama with a tissue-thin weak premise about two immature people who for no particular reason make no effort to resolve their sexual tensions. But it's got fans here, it's People's Choice awards. The standards just aren't set that high.

My nitpicking is because of how the show has been presented to me. I don't know what the creators have stated about the show, but I can tell you that this thread is the first time I have seen the word "swashbuckling" associated with Revolution. All the previews that I saw focused on the major event of technology dieing, and the post-apocalyptic theme. One of the main reasons I complained about the plane crash earlier was because it literally appeared in every single commercial I saw for the show. It was a major, attention-grabbing tool that was central to the marketing of the show, and it was undeniably sloppy.

Likewise, the design of the post-event world is a central point of the show. The constant focus on recognizable locales (a decomposing airplane, the Grand Hotel, Wrigley Field, etc) drives home the "realism" and the fact that post-apocalyptic world of the show is supposed to be our world. The level of weapons technology is integrated into plot points like the showdown between guns and crossbows, and the importance is exacerbated when they give a close-up zoom of the main bad guy's gun but show us nothing about the swords seen later on. The state of medical equipment/knowledge is a defining development point for two of the main characters. And if you go on the Revolution web site right now, you'll find links to "Check Out Eco-Friendly Survival Tips" and "Survival Guide: Water", but no mention of sword-fighting, heroism, or anything remotely swashbuckly.

Maybe all this stuff isn't in line with the original vision of the creators, but it's what's been presented to the audience so far. You can't use integrated world building to generate interest, then claim the audience isn't paying attention to the right things when they notice the cracks in the foundation.

Conversely, Castle isn't trying to be a realistic procedural cop show. They make it obvious that it's supposed to be an over-the-top show based on literary ridiculousness, and they have fun doing it. If Revolution camped it up a bit, I would be a lot less critical of what I've seen; I'll complain about the ACDC t-shirt in Revolution, but I won't complain about the costumes in Xena: Warrior Princess.

Umbran · Sep 25, 2012

slobster said:
This is 'Merica we're talking about here. After the mass die-offs, there should be enough small arms left over to outfit every man, woman, and child like Rambo.

Again, the semi-automatics can't be reloaded with black powder ammo, unless you like your gun jamming and possibly blowing up in your hand.

The shotguns, revolvers, and single-shot rifles can stick around, but many of the small arms will still be out of commission.

I was talking about a variant of the Fat Boy design, a gun-type Uranium fission device. From my understanding, it's quite easy to build;

"Quite easy" is a relative term. Remember that you're talking about people who now have to use coal-fired furnaces and hammers to shape metal. No modern welding.

you need two subcritical hunks of enriched uranium (easily scavenged from the thousands of now-defunct devices protected by useless electronic security)

You keep using that word ("easy"). I don't think it means what you think it means. As I understand it, most of that "useless" security includes vaults that close and stay closed without their electronic locks. Not impossible to get at, but easy?

EDIT: I've always used "nuke" as a generic slang term for nuclear weapon, with no distinction between fission and fusion devices. I've never heard anyone distinguish between the two with it before.

That's largely because, these days, atomic weaponry isn't worth discussing, compared to its thermonuclear cousins.

JRRNeiklot said:
Considering there are about 90 guns per 100 people in the US, and a significant portion of the population is going to die when the blackout hits, there's never going to be a shortage of guns. They won't have to be made for a long, long, time. And that's not even counting guns owned by the military.

Most of those guns are not stainless steel. Failure to maintain a semi-automatic or automatic weapon will, of course, lead to it rusting and jamming.

And where are the vehicles? My 72 pickup needs no electricity to function

Your 72 pickup doesn't have a battery? What runs your starter motor, hamsters?

JRRNeiklot · Sep 25, 2012

Umbran said:
Most of those guns are not stainless steel. Failure to maintain a semi-automatic or automatic weapon will, of course, lead to it rusting and jamming.

So? My grandfather's double barrel shotgun is over 80 years old and works flawlessly. Out of 200 million weapons, a good portion of those are going to be hunting rifles and shotguns. In fact, I'd say most of them. There will be plenty even 100 years after a teotwawki event. Yeah, some will get wet, broken, burnt up, blown up, etc, but many more won't.

Your 72 pickup doesn't have a battery? What runs your starter motor, hamsters?

It has a battery. But it isn't required to start it. It's only necessary for lights and the radio. You can jump off any non automatic vehicle, at least older models.

slobster · Sep 25, 2012

Umbran said:
"Quite easy" is a relative term. Remember that you're talking about people who now have to use coal-fired furnaces and hammers to shape metal. No modern welding.

All you need to to is accelerate a subcritical mass into another subcritical mass, so that the result is a critical mass. A cannon would do, and they were making cannons long before we had modern welding. Again, not a nuclear engineer, just going off what I've learned.

Umbran said:
You keep using that word ("easy"). I don't think it means what you think it means.

Really?

slobster · Sep 25, 2012

Umbran said:
That's largely because, these days, atomic weaponry isn't worth discussing, compared to its thermonuclear cousins.

At the risk of beginning to discuss real world politics, those who are concerned about Iran's nuclear weapons program disagree about fission bombs not being worthy of discussion.