[3.P] Masterpiece weapons - Exotic++

ImperatorK · Sep 24, 2012

(Dunno if this is the right place for a homebrew thread. Please move if not.)

I propose creating a new type of weapons - Masterpiece weapons - which are basically what Exotic weapons should have been from the beginning.
Firstly - Masterpiece weapons would all have a decent damage dice. Something like 1d12 minimum or whatever.
Secondly - they all would have nice combat benefits depending on the weapon.
Of course Masterpiece weapons would be extremely hard to wield successfully, so they would require a feat to use (there's no non-proficiency penalties, you either can use it or not). There would also be feat chains or maybe even trees for improving benefits or gaining new ones.

Whatya think?

Alternatives involve making homebrew Martial Disciplines for each such "Exotic++" weapon.

Sekhmet · Sep 24, 2012

In your proposal, what would be the purpose of Exotic weapons, if there were Exotic++ weapons that dealt more damage and had more/better effects?

RUMBLETiGER · Sep 25, 2012

So, you want to create additional exotic weapons that deal more damage than the existing ones, with the same required feat to use?

Sounds reasonable, but as @Sekhmet has said, expect players to overlook existing weapons for your more powerful ones. Since that's likely what you intend, sounds good. Giving non-caster weapon combatants the ability to deal more damage is useful, unless using Tome of Battle.

Dozen · Sep 25, 2012

I support the idea. The concept of what the core calls Exotic weapons amounts to a bad joke. The other two weapon groups are based on how hard it is to wield them effectively as a weapon, not regional differences - which in some worlds never existed to begin with, by the way - and those weapons that were included among Exotic weapons due to the former reason(whips or two-bladed swords, for example) don't fit the term. Go ahead and fix it, I'll be happy to use the material you come up with.

1d12+ damage is reasonable when the weapon can't do anything special otherwise, but try to keep it realistic, base them on RL ones, maybe come up with something new but not impossible, etc. A lot of people choose weapons based on flavor, so they don't necessarily need to be more effective than the rest; it's enough if they are hard to use.

ImperatorK · Sep 25, 2012

Sekhmet said:
In your proposal, what would be the purpose of Exotic weapons, if there were Exotic++ weapons that dealt more damage and had more/better effects?

On another forum there was given a nice idea:

JackMann said:
So, here's an idea. Masterpiece weapons are a subset of masterwork weapons. Ordinary wielders treat them as though they were masterwork. However, people with the right training (i.e. the right feat) can get additional benefits. Greater damage, special weapon abilities that aren't available to the average swordsman. This still gives you weapons that are, in the right hands, much more dangerous, but without having to come up with reasons why other people can't use them. They can. They just can't get the most out of them.

Also in my games Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat gives prof. in all Exotic weapons, that's why I'm considering making better weapons worth sacrificing a feat.

So, you want to create additional exotic weapons that deal more damage than the existing one

No, not really. I want to create better weapons that are actually worth a feat (or two).

Sekhmet · Sep 25, 2012

Sure, I get that. However, if you have to take a feat to gain access to Exotic Weapons, and you have to take a feat to gain access to Exotic ++ weapons, why would you take the feat for Exotic Weapons?
Is it a Feat chain?

kitcik · Sep 25, 2012

Making EWP worthwhile: love it!

Doing so with extra damage: hate it!

If there's one thing melee guys can already do, it is deal damage.

I would rather make EWP worth it by letting you do special things with the weapons - like spiked chain where you can threaten adjacent or at reach and trip as well.

I am sure the creative minds here at ENWorld could come up with some good ideas for new exotic weapons.

How about a weapon that does full damage on a regular hit, but partial damage (and discharge of magical effects) on a touch AC hit - "you grazed him!"

Or one that could block incoming missile weapons or ray attacks, maybe because you are constantly twirling it.

Anyway, that kind of thing.

Ashtagon · Sep 25, 2012

What I've done is a feat for each "normal" class of weapons "axes, swords, spears, etc). Then a feat for exotic weapons. You need both EWP and the general weapon class to count as having proficiency in that specific exotic weapon (eg. WP/swords plus EWP gives you proficiency in the bastard sword and two-bladed sword).

I guess you could expand that with a "EWP+" feat, which allows access to a second tier of more advanced exotic weapons.

ImperatorK · Sep 25, 2012

Sekhmet said:
Sure, I get that. However, if you have to take a feat to gain access to Exotic Weapons, and you have to take a feat to gain access to Exotic ++ weapons, why would you take the feat for Exotic Weapons?
Is it a Feat chain?

Using JackMann's suggestion - yes, it would be something like a feat chain. And it wouldn't even be limited to Exotic weapons.
Ignoring JackMann's suggestion - the Exotic++ feat would have Exotic feat as a prerequisite (again, I suggest houseruling Martial/Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat to give prof. in all Martial/Exotic weapons with just one feat).