Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 12:25 AM #1
Defender (Lvl 8)
- Join Date
- Aug 2003
- Craigmore, South Australia
ř Ignore Olaf the Stout
Dragon and Dungeon Magazines - Do You Miss Them?
I was recently reading the Paizo blog posts by Lisa Stevens about Paizo's history. One of the blog posts discussed the ending of Paizo's licence for Dragon and Dungeon magazine, whose last issues were 5 years ago now (September 2007).
I still remember that announcement quite clearly. I was shocked that WotC had decided to take the licence back from Paizo as I thought that they were doing a great job of them. I was appalled when I found out that, not only were they taking back the licences, they were going to exist purely in a digital format only.
I remember being so upset about it that I even talked about it with my wife, who has no interest in RPG's whatsoever. Normally I don't talk gaming with her at all, but this felt like such a significant event that I felt like I needed to talk to someone about it.
Looking back on it now, it is still quite a sad memory for me. Dragon and Dungeon magazines are definitely in my memories when I think of my D&D history. Even when I wasn't playing for several years I still bought Dragon magazine to read. I still use Dungeon magazine adventures in my campaigns now.
I think what I miss most is just reading about D&D stuff on a regular basis. I have a whole heap of D&D books, and I also regularly visit the EN World forums, but it just isn't the same thing for me.
To top it off, the digital versions of Dragon and Dungeon never eventuated. Yes, there are D&D articles and adventures publised via D&D Insider, but it really isn't the same thing as a hard copy magazine (or even a compiled soft copy magazine for that matter). Yes, there are things like Kobold Quarterly that fill a similar niche, but to me it still isn't quite the same.
So, now that we're 5 years on, what do you think about Dragon and Dungeon magazine? Do you miss them? Are you still angry or sad that WotC canned them or is it just a changing of the times for you?
Olaf the StoutFinished running my group through the SCAP, now I'm running them through the AoW AP
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 12:35 AM #2
Thaumaturgist (Lvl 9)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
ř Ignore Evenglare
I was alright when wizards was doing the compiled magazines, but now that everything is online separate, and each entry MAY be in a PDF but most of them are on the site it's awful. I mean... really really awful, nothing like what I envisioned.
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 12:38 AM #3
Lama (Lvl 13)
- Join Date
- Feb 2003
- Gainesville, FL
ř Ignore DaveMage
I missed them for quite a while, but I don't miss them anymore.Only you can prevent forest fires. That's right - you!
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 01:42 AM #4
Defender (Lvl 8)
I miss them, yes.
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 02:35 AM #5
Grandmaster of Flowers (Lvl 18)
- Join Date
- Mar 2002
- Verona, WI
ř Ignore billd91
I kind of miss them too, deep down. But I've pretty much moved on.
I was glad to hear that WotC did extend the license until Paizo could finish the Savage Tide adventure path, but I still think they screwed the pooch on the whole topic. They attracted a lot of my ire over that and the fiasco that was the GSL. If they weren't deliberately trying to kill Paizo, they still managed to land a few serious blows to their business plan viability that might have killed any company run by less competent people. Even if done unintentionally, that is not a decent way to treat a close business ally.Bill D
"There's a fine line between a superpower and a chronic medical condition."
- Doctor Impossible
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 03:09 AM #6
Myrmidon (Lvl 10)
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Grayson Valley area north of Birmingham
ř Ignore Wiseblood
I miss them. I still have a number of them. I do not subscribe to any (strong emphasis) online content. I do not want to spend any more time in front of a computer than I already do. EN World gets me m my fix but I prefer paper.Sanjuro: "Stupid friends are dangerous."
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 04:32 AM #7
A 1e title so awesome it's not in the book (Lvl 21)
I don't actually miss the magazines, in and of themselves. They were part of a dynamic of gaming that, for me, ended years before the magazines went out of print.
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 04:40 AM #8
Cutpurse (Lvl 5)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- City of Champions
ř Ignore Shadeydm
I especially miss Dungeon, so much good stuff that I still enjoy looking back at them.
A sadistic red dragon named Flame anyone?I hope with strange eons even the edition war may die.
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 12:34 PM #9
Magsman (Lvl 14)
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
ř Ignore Shemeska
Part of the hobby died the day Dragon and Dungeon magazines ended their print run. It was a ubiquitous element of D&D for decades, it was something that could be found on magazine racks in places beyond the FLGS, it was also very often where people got their first start in RPG writing (like me!) and it served to find and nurture new talent.
To a large extent we no longer have that. I'm not angry, but there was something lost when they went away.
Mind you, they didn't truly go away completely. We still have the online versions, but the content has dropped rather heavily since they went online till now, and it really doesn't seem to serve the same niches that the printed Dragon and Dungeon did. They're more like the free online articles that appeared in 3e with a bit extra work put into it, more art, etc. But they really don't operate in the same sense that they did as proper print magazines, and it's a shame.
Now I do think they could reclaim some of that niche (though indeed, being online only some of that is lost by virtue of the medium) by trying to become more of the farm system for talent they used to be. But being behind a paywall really, really hurts that since much of the former audience might not ever see it. You can't read a copy on the rack and then buy it like before, you can't borrow a copy from a friend and later get an issue or two, or even a subscription. If they moved to a pay-per-article model you might see more talk about certain pieces, I'm not sure, but I suspect it.
There used to be threads here and elsewhere about each month's issue back when it was in print. Now there's a deafening silence, even on the WotC forums for the most part.
I was lucky enough to get into both magazines when they were in print, and that got me opportunities later on elsewhere with Paizo and others, and earlier this year I had a piece in the e-zine too. I still pay attention to them, and I just pitched several things (and I encourage others to do so as well), but I really lament having that tangible magazine. PDFs have utility, and I love them for quick reference versus physical books, but as a replacement for the magazines it's not the same.
I suppose it's a pipe dream to see them come back into print. However there's also Kobold Quarterly which serves as something of a spiritual successor, since it's still in print, and it covers multiple editions/systems as well. We lost the print versions, and we've gained a number of things in the fallout, but I still miss the magazines in the mail each month.Todd Stewart
Freelance Writer 5 / Scientist 5 / Yugoloth 10
Coming soon Laughing Fiend.com, my freelancing page. Awaiting art. ETA I have no idea, but if not soon the Tindalos hounds will be eating artist for dinner.
Visit Shemeska's Planescape Storyhour and Shemmy's 2nd Planescape Storyhour
Thursday, 4th October, 2012, 12:37 PM #10
Enchanter (Lvl 12)
I miss them badly, but I would not necessarily want them back in print form. PDF to print out if needed would be all the better for me as magazines are hard to store.My Story Hour campaigns. What are they up to this week?
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