DM playing with PC?

Alarian · Oct 16, 2012

I've been running a DMPC in our groups campaign for over 10 years now and it's worked fine for us. Main reason being myself and another player trade off GM'ing the group. We each run an adventure and then swap places. In all the years we've been doing it I don't ever recall hearing one of the other players complain about it. Our entire group has pretty much been playing since the 70's (although not together for that long) and perhaps having that experience helps us separate our GM role from the player role.

So, at least for our group of 5 it's worked really well. I say if you think you can keep the two roles separate go for it.

Crothian · Oct 16, 2012

AwesomeOpossum74 said:
We're very new, with a very limited group size. A total of 4 of us, including 2 adults, and 2 children. This means that only 2 of us really can DM. We're planning to alternate the responsibility. But we both want to also be able to continue the storyline from week to week with our characters if we can. It would also serve to make the group larger by 1.

That is a completely different situation then what I was thinking and deserves a different answer. In this case I say each of the DMs should have a PC to use when not DMing and when you are DMing just have your character fade a little to the background. Playing with kids I imagine the gaming focus will be more on them anyway so DMPC is less likely to cause issues.

There are some great threads and blogs about gaming with children that you might want to try to find. One that is a great story filled with good inspiration is the Adventures of Samatha the Red by Rel. It is more adventure around the house and play then an RPG but a great set of adventures non the less.

Elf Witch · Oct 16, 2012

I personally hate NPCs that fade into the background. If you are going to have an NPC with the party make them a living breathing character with a personality.

In our one game the player playing the cleric left because of health reasons that left us with no healing and a party of three. The DM and I sat down and made an NPC cleric after talking to the other players. We tied him into my back story to give him a reason to be with the party. I play him in combat the DM plays him all other times.

We considered him a full member of the party and he got an equal share of treasure. The DM does not treat him any different than the rest of us.

Later I retired my character and the cleric went with her we actually use them in play in a home game with just the two of us.

To replace the cleric an NPC paladin was brought in that tied into another character back story and now that player runs him in combat and the DM runs him otherwise.

Some of my favorite campaigns had great NPCs that added so much to the game. They became friends, lovers and enemies to the party. They made the world come alive.

The trick in using them is to make sure they don't over shadow the PCs if you tie them into a PC plot lines it is even better. You know you have done it right when the party will go the ends of the planes and hell itself to rescue the fallen NPC.

Lanefan · Oct 16, 2012

First off: there's no difference between a party-member NPC and a DMPC - it's the same thing.

Second off: let's assume this discussion is ignoring henches, cohorts, hirelings, porters, guides, intelligent donkeyhorses, and other NPC-like things that are in the party because the PCs put them there.

Third off: we've had party-member NPCs as pretty much standard procedure from day 1 and 99% of the time it hasn't been a problem at all. The players look after the rolling (usually) and in co-operation with the DM play them as if a part of the party, except the DM can over-ride the players' suggested actions for the NPC if they don't make sense for the character. NPCs are most often recruited by the party to fill a hole (e.g. nobody's playing a Thief) or to shore up a weakness (we've got one Fighter trying to protect six back-liners - we need some more muscle). After that, they stick around (or not) just like PCs and for the same reasons.

And last but not least: having party-member NPCs come and go makes it easier for the DM to insert a double agent or spy into the party if the plot requires such. >insert evil cackle here<

Lanefan

Unwise · Oct 16, 2012

Every companion character that I use has a few things in common:

- They generally have some mental impairment that stops them from always making the rational and logical choice e.g. The insanely brave knight errant. The cowardly magician. The beserker. The pacifist healer. Even when it is a trope, this stops them feeling like a Mary Sue character.

- They are generally competent, but have one thing that they are amazing at. For instance, the theif is an ex-engineer, he is a competent thief, but give him time and he will make traps that would make a dragon wince. The knight is a good fighter, but an amazing horseman. Mounted, with a lance, he is the hardest hitter in the group. The archer is in to zen archery, he never misses the mark if he has time to prepare.

- They have no powers to overshine the PCs. In 4th edition, this means no daily powers and very limited encounter powers.

- They have very well defined utility powers. It is way too easy for the DM to fall into the trap of having their companion NPC pull out a Deus Ex Machina utility power to help the party. After a while this feels very cheap and tacky. It also makes the party feel ripped off when you don't do it "What do you mean the wizard does not know the fly spell? He knew invisibility, linked portal, animal familiar, etc, etc ,etc when we needed them". What I tend to do here is make spell users highly specialised e.g. This guy is an expert mentalist, so any mental utility spell he probably knows, but nothing else.

I am currently running a single player campaign which involves a bunch of companion characters. I just thought I would quickly share how I run those. They need to be kept simple yet effective. This is for 4th edition D&D, but the same can be applied to some other game systems. Each NPC has the following:
- 2 at-will powers.
- 1 basic encounter power that they can use twice per encounter. This is tied to their main role. E.g. Healing Word, Backstab, Powerstrike, Intercept.
- 1 powerful encounter power tied to their speciality. E.g. Beserker rage, fireball, dominate, super-flying-kick.

This makes the NPCs good at what they do and at least comperable to a PC on a standard turn. Whenever the PCs use a limited resource though, they overshadow the NPCs.

This makes it really easy to run as a DM. I actually show the PCs what the NPCs can do so they can help run them. This also makes them a known quantity and gets rid of the Deus Ex Machina feeling. Recently I have decided that all companion NPC damage rolls will always be the same, they of course roll to hit though. I just always take the average of that particular NPCs damage. This really speeds things up.

slobo777 · Oct 16, 2012

AwesomeOpossum74 said:
We're very new, with a very limited group size. A total of 4 of us, including 2 adults, and 2 children. This means that only 2 of us really can DM. We're planning to alternate the responsibility. But we both want to also be able to continue the storyline from week to week with our characters if we can. It would also serve to make the group larger by 1.

I would also be interested when I DM my own adventures, just to be able to "participate". But I may very well also be happy just being the DM and controlling the normal NPCs, and creating havoc for my other player's PCs.

I'm taking what everyone her has written into consideration, and think I may limit myself to just DMing without my PC, or even my own NPC for now, and try to get my PCing in when not DMing.

I think you are in a "could DMPC" situation here.

But have you considered adding a "pet" or loyal servant as a long-running NPC? I'd suggest loyal to whole group, and maybe something that gets discovered/rescued in the first or second session . . .

Non-human allies or pets can fill useful team roles, can be used to set the tone (they can anything from cutesy through willful/playful to downright vicious), and are fun to play as NPCs whilst not needing huge amounts of time from you. Pick something level-appropriate, don't be tempted to make a powerful "exotic" pet. Most importantly, it should fill a team role that the other players haven't chosen for their PCs. With 3 players, this should be an easy decision - whatever out of cleric, fighter, rogue or wizard isn't taken.

S'mon · Oct 16, 2012

AwesomeOpossum74 said:
We're very new, with a very limited group size. A total of 4 of us, including 2 adults, and 2 children. This means that only 2 of us really can DM. We're planning to alternate the responsibility. But we both want to also be able to continue the storyline from week to week with our characters if we can. It would also serve to make the group larger by 1.

I would also be interested when I DM my own adventures, just to be able to "participate". But I may very well also be happy just being the DM and controlling the normal NPCs, and creating havoc for my other player's PCs.

I'm taking what everyone her has written into consideration, and think I may limit myself to just DMing without my PC, or even my own NPC for now, and try to get my PCing in when not DMing.

My recommendation here would be that the GM run for a three-PC group, with their PC absent when they are GMing, but award 'party XP' rather than individual XP, ie there is a single XP tally which applies to all PCs. The GMs' PCs will still miss out on magic items which could be an issue depending on which system you are using (in 4e D&D you can just use Inherent Bonuses), unless they are gifted some by the other PCs, but they will stay the same level. If lack of items is an issue then the GMs may agree a solution - eg their PCs gain minor items in 'off time'.

If that doesn't work for your game, then keeping your PC in the group as an NPC while you GM may be ok, but make sure they don't hog the spotlight or display inappropriate knowledge. They need to take on a support role only.

Edit: In general it would seem best that the children's 2 PCs be the 'star characters', with the GMs' PCs being more companions/support.

DM playing with PC?

Alarian

First Post

Crothian

First Post

Elf Witch

First Post

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Unwise

Adventurer

slobo777

First Post

S'mon

Legend

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