D&D 5E Maybe I'm just tired?

UngeheuerLich · Nov 15, 2012

I support:

Armchair designers answer polls instead of real playtesters.

But IMHO wotc is handling the situation quite well. They are careful implementing new ideas and are taking time to review the poll comments.
They also ensure us, that everything is in flux. And they are testing ideas which are unpopular (based on forum feedback).

fjw70 · Nov 15, 2012

My only concerns about DDN right now are the compression of the monsters and slow advance of XD and maneuvers. The way things look now most adventuring will be over with by around level 10.

I liked how 4e spread monsters out so that monsters like giants were in the teen levels so you still had reasonable challenges when you got to 10th to 12th level. The way the monsters are now is that by level 10 a PC will be able to solo huge dragons or a dozen ogres. The PCs will be among the most powerful beings in the world at that point and that leaves little room for adventuring beyond 10th without going planar or something similar.

The above would be fine except that PCs don’t fully develop until around 10th level. In particular the fighter doesn’t get a full style of maneuvers until his adventuring days are just about over and he doesn’t start getting multiple XD until half way through a level 1-10 career and doesn’t get a third one until the end of that career.

ferratus · Nov 15, 2012

My biggest fear? That the playtesting won't make rules that are fun because people get odd ideas in their heads. I mean, look at all of the bad rules that survived Pathfinder playtesting, most particularly rolling to confirm critical hits.

That was the worst rule in the history D&D. Worse than level limits. Worse than THAC0. Worse than random harlot tables. Worse than any rule ever invented because it is the only rule designed to take the joy out of a rare triumph at low levels. At high levels it is an unecessary nuisance. You can take it out of the game and it wouldn't affect game balance once iota. After all, 4e did and previous editions to 3e got along without it just fine.

But apparently it got through playtesting. I have also almost joined 3 Pathfinder games, but no DM was willing to sacrifice confirming criticals to have me as a player. They never defended it when I explained why it was bad design, they just affirmed that because it was in the rulebook, they were going to use it.

So that's what I worry 5e is going to be. Nothing but one long list of rules as bad as confirming critical hits, but kept because the playtesters demand it. The nixing of the silver standard by alpha playtesters, and the nixing of turn undead as a spell are examples of much needed changes that are being sacked by playtesting.

Cadence · Nov 15, 2012

Summer-Knight925 said:
I'm not sure, but I really don't see that much I like in NEXT.

What, if any, are your biggest fears with NEXT?

That it will squander the chance to draw a lot of new players into RPGs.

That it will do a poor job of encouraging those it draws in to like RPGs in general.

Jester David · Nov 15, 2012

My biggest fear is that WotC will have its standard post-edition case of staff turnover and the people left managing the edition won't do what the people currently planning want and were building towards.

Such as not releasing expected modules, or not releasing finished versions of playtested options.

Umbran · Nov 15, 2012

Making perfect the enemy of good is a common human activity, so my biggest fear is that we, hyper-critical as we are, will kill it.

Jester David · Nov 15, 2012

ferratus said:
My biggest fear? That the playtesting won't make rules that are fun because people get odd ideas in their heads. I mean, look at all of the bad rules that survived Pathfinder playtesting, most particularly rolling to confirm critical hits.

I think content like that survived because if the desire for PF to be backwards compatible. Change how crits work and every 3.5e product no longer works quite right.

DEFCON 1 · Nov 15, 2012

Summer-Knight925 said:
I'm not sure, but I really don't see that much I like in NEXT.

What, if any, are your biggest fears with NEXT?

Try to remain civil guys, I'm not trying to start a flamewar, just trying to address the negatives in a positive and civilized manner.

My biggest fear is that I'm going to have to listen to all manner of ridiculous complaints here on EN World once the books finally get released.

I just know half the threads are going to be from some yo-yo saying something along the lines of "THEY HAD TWO YEARS TO GET XXX RIGHT! HOW COULD THEY SCREW IT UP?!?"... completely ignoring the fact that they were probably one of like twelve people out of the entire bunch who actually wanted XXX, which the playtest bore out. Won't matter to them... they're still going to complain and act like WotC were the idiots, rather than accept that it was actually probably themselves with absurd desires and expectations.

Cadence · Nov 15, 2012

ferratus said:
But apparently it got through playtesting. I have also almost joined 3 Pathfinder games, but no DM was willing to sacrifice confirming criticals to have me as a player. They never defended it when I explained why it was bad design, they just affirmed that because it was in the rulebook, they were going to use it.

The way you phrased that, I think I would have turned down a player who was that demanding before they would have a chance to turn me down. Or were you turning them down simply because of their clinginess to RAW and inability to discuss (which I can understand)?

e.g. What if they had thought quickly enough on their feet to say they thought it was silly that 1/20 shots by 1st-level non-proficient characters with bows would critical a dragon, they didn't want a mass of Kobolds to take out the higher level parties just by lobbing enough sling bullets at them (since 1/20 would be crits), and they don't want the party to die quite that often in combat at 1st level? Or if they said they didn't use criticals at all because they're too swingy? Or "Its my first time DMing Pathfinder and I want to try the RAW out before removing a rule. After it comes up a few times we can talk about it as a group"?

TerraDave · Nov 15, 2012

There does seem to Next fatigue on the boards here.

Which is shame, I think things are just getting started, and I also think this is growing beyond us internet snarkers to a bigger part of the playing public.

Maybe some of just need a little break.