Is it crowded?

Umbran · Nov 17, 2012

pogre said:
Can there be too many games?

In a sense, yes, I believe there can be.

Don't get me wrong - I do think there's strength to be found in diversity. I myself am most certainly *not* a "one game for all time" sort.

However, there's also such a thing as spreading things too thin. Imagine your own personal gaming life, if you played a game each week, but it was a different game. How much depth would you get? Would you ever really feel you'd gotten the most you could from a game? Probably not. The same sort of thing can happen in the market overall.

With too many games, spread too thin, few or none of them gets the full focus and attention (and business and $$) that allows them to be really and truly developed and supported.

pogre · Nov 17, 2012

Summer-Knight925 said:
Define what you mean by scenarios, do you mean like modules for certain rule types?

Yes and things like Engine Publishing's brilliant Eureka: 501 Adventure Plots to Inspire Game Masters

Umbran said:
However, there's also such a thing as spreading things too thin. Imagine your own personal gaming life, if you played a game each week, but it was a different game. How much depth would you get? Would you ever really feel you'd gotten the most you could from a game? Probably not. The same sort of thing can happen in the market overall.

I can see your point, but I am going to get more choices. I'm not going to play a new game each week no matter how diverse the field becomes. I get to decide what I want to explore more deeply. I concede I may be losing some supplementary material for a game due to this "thinning."

gamerprinter said:
An adventure would have to be so generic that it could fit any setting, and we publisher/freelancer want to create custom material, not vanilla adventures.

A more generic product would appeal to me. You are closer to the industry than me, and I bow to your superior knowledge of the market. However, shouldn't successful publishers be looking at what the market demands a bit more than what they want to produce? Again, I admit I may be in the minority on liking the generic stuff.

gamerprinter · Nov 17, 2012

pogre said:
A more generic product would appeal to me. You are closer to the industry than me, and I bow to your superior knowledge of the market. However, shouldn't successful publishers be looking at what the market demands a bit more than what they want to produce? Again, I admit I may be in the minority on liking the generic stuff.

There is definitely a market for vanilla adventures, certainly, for the small publisher, however, its harder to market than a more niche product. While niche products (like a Japanese horror setting) is a much smaller market than a vanilla one, it's got a laser targetted market - in the case of Kaidan, for example, fans of oriental and/or horror games.

I can see some publisher trying for the vanilla niche, but competing more directly with big company products lines - it's tougher to get the needed sales in a short enough time period to be considered profitable. It's a tougher market than a niche market.

Votan · Nov 17, 2012

Umbran said:
However, there's also such a thing as spreading things too thin. Imagine your own personal gaming life, if you played a game each week, but it was a different game. How much depth would you get? Would you ever really feel you'd gotten the most you could from a game? Probably not. The same sort of thing can happen in the market overall.

I also wonder about network effects. For established, long term groups this isn't going to be an issue. But if you try and knit together a new group for a specific system then it is much harder if there are dozens of systems. Harder makes groups less likely to form and that can only reduce the total market further.

Umbran · Nov 17, 2012

pogre said:
I can see your point, but I am going to get more choices.

Are you? Are you gong to hear about all the small games? It isn't like they're getting enough income to have a marketing budget...

I get to decide what I want to explore more deeply.

Only if you can manage to game by yourself. Most of us can only explore those things we can get an entire group to play. And that often depends upon the options available in the game rules - so those supplements can matter when trying to get others to play with you.

pogre · Nov 17, 2012

Umbran said:
Are you? Are you gong to hear about all the small games? It isn't like they're getting enough income to have a marketing budget....

Maybe I am unusual in this respect, but I get almost all of my info about games from the internet. Places like this site and others. It really does not cost any money to reach me, just effort.

Umbran said:
Only if you can manage to game by yourself. Most of us can only explore those things we can get an entire group to play. And that often depends upon the options available in the game rules - so those supplements can matter when trying to get others to play with you.

Nah, if I am willing to run something with enthusiasm, players are never a problem as a rule. Most folks are willing to try a new game. Players who have specific requirements or options they need in a game generally aren't my kind of players anyway.

pogre · Nov 17, 2012

Votan said:
I also wonder about network effects. For established, long term groups this isn't going to be an issue. But if you try and knit together a new group for a specific system then it is much harder if there are dozens of systems. Harder makes groups less likely to form and that can only reduce the total market further.

Totally legitimate point. When I am trying to start a new game I almost always run the first campaign with popular well-known rules for that reason.

gamerprinter · Nov 17, 2012

Votan said:
I also wonder about network effects. For established, long term groups this isn't going to be an issue. But if you try and knit together a new group for a specific system then it is much harder if there are dozens of systems. Harder makes groups less likely to form and that can only reduce the total market further.

Which is the main reason I decided to publish Kaidan for PFRPG - it is one of the larger systems with many players available. I am also more familiar with 3x/PF rules than other systems.

Votan · Nov 18, 2012

gamerprinter said:
Which is the main reason I decided to publish Kaidan for PFRPG - it is one of the larger systems with many players available. I am also more familiar with 3x/PF rules than other systems.

Yeah, I have moved around a lot and my best luck with group formation has been to decide that I want to run Pathfinder.

Agamon · Nov 18, 2012

Lots to choose from, yes, but the key difference between now and the d20 glut is quality. Finding the diamonds in the OGL rough was a chore, to say the least. But newer games like 13th Age, ACKS, DCC, Dungeon World, Eclipse Phase, Burning Wheel, Fiasco, Hackmaster, Marvel Heroic, Microscope, Swords & Wizardry and Hillfolk are all quality games. Lots of games for different tastes and styles. I see it as a golden age, personally.

Is it crowded?

Umbran

Mod Squad

pogre

Legend

gamerprinter

Mapper/Publisher

Votan

Explorer

Umbran

Mod Squad

pogre

Legend

pogre

Legend

gamerprinter

Mapper/Publisher

Votan

Explorer

Agamon

Adventurer

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