griffonwing
First Post
Fair point.
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- Thread starter Fhalyassa
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Fair point.
Well, both being Chaotic Evil displays of love are going to bend to that category.
This question really begs another in which do you want her with a different alignment? Look, the story you have now is that she did what Succubi do except the guy actually loved her because she is a Succubus. He saved her other people killed him and their child so seeking revenge is a likely choice. I don't mean to belittle your character but if you want something actually different from a textbook Succubus then you should tell us.
dragonfriend7738
Explorer
I agree with Emoplato. Whether or not you need a different background depends upon whether or not you actually want an alignment beyond CE for your succubus. In my opinion, what you've written up works well; for a vengeance driven, CE demoness. If you want something else, well... you're probably going to need to come up with something different.
dragonfriend7738
Explorer
... Still not seeing anything that would take her off of the CE alignment, or a reason to do so.
Succubi, traditionally, are aware of the fact that they are physically weak, that's why they use their mental domination techniques to seduce or coerce others to do the dirty work for them, while they stay back and use spells or other ranged abilities/attacks- if not outright running away.
The desire for more power is definitely within the CE mindset- especially if it's for personal use.
You still haven't answered the critical question though- do you want your succubus to be an alignment other than CE? If so, we can work with some things to make it possible for you; if not, then you're perfectly fine and don't need to change anything. (In my humble opinion, that is.)
dragonfriend7738
Explorer
Lawful Evil is a (relatively) easy one, as it only requires roleplay or backstory. Understandably, it'd have to be a good example, as Succubi are demons, which are supposed to exemplify the very essense of Chaos. Going Lawful would be extremely difficult for one.
How exactly would you explain a Succubus becoming a Devil, anyhow? You'd probably be better off just going with an Eryine. (The winged female fallen angels?)
What about Asmodeus turning her into a devil? Aasmodeus did that to Baalzbuel when he was Triel (MotP )
What about her possibly trying to found out some way to bring back her family if it is possible?
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S
Sunseeker
Guest
Love is not selfless....well, maybe that romanticized "true love" is, but the "love" that most people experience is anything but selfless.
To quote Bender: "Bender knows love, and love doesn't share itself with the world. Love is suspicious, love is needy. Love is fearful, love is greedy. My friends, there is no great love without great jealousy!"
Also: as for turning her into some sort of monster, the trope here is pretty standard and provides a few options:
A: She is monster-ized only physically. Because of this strange new body, the powers of darkness flowing through her, she finds it difficult to master her emotions and control herself. She's not evil, she's just scared, frustrated, angry and sad.
B: she is monster-ized mentally(and physically). This can range anywhere from complete brainwashing through overwhelming her mind with evil thoughts, seduction towards evil Darth Vader style, torture and blackmail(I will kill your babies and loved ones!) forcing her to do evil against her will, and so on.
-Depending on how you run it, this can either be very good or very lame. Choice A almost always comes across as a little cheesey, but it can be very endearing when a character tries their hardest to to "mind over matter" fight their new evil-inclined body.
Choice B has it's up's and downs as well. Slow falls into evil are often great, but they are delicate, she needs motivation and a certain willingness(which must be more than "I'm supernaturally inclined towards evil!) to do destructive, evil acts. Often these are done for the "greater good", but such things are generally considered to be a slippery slope. As Yoda says: "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." Evil acts in the name of a greater good are seductive because they are usually easier and more obvious, but when you do them long enough you lose sight of what is actually right and wrong.
Complete brainwashing into evil is less interesting, but fun if you like a nearly comedic level of moustache-twirling villiany. I say it's "less interesting" because it's usually too easy. The villain has evil magic powers that made you evil, so now you're evil, until ya know, you get the spell reversed and you're not. There's no character depth to these sorts of plots, which is why they're best played up in a fairly comedic manner rather than a serious manner.
-I should add, the reason complete brainwashing is usually uninteresting is because it requires a lot of setup in order to properly execute. If the answer to why your character did an evil act is "well because they're evil", then it's meaningless and treads into the over-the-top comedy villainy. Evil acts now due to brainwashing work best when they're built upon past character development. Lets say for example at some point your character couldn't decide between two men on who to date/love/marry. Now that she's evil, she makes the one she chose feel horrible and betrayed by sleeping with the one she didn't. Or maybe perhaps your character saved the child or friend of an ally, so now that she's evil, she goes out and tortures/kills that person. Brainwashing into evil is great in these sorts of instances, betrayal is a feeling that should stick with any character even after your character "becomes good again"(if ever). So that even when you are good, you are distrusted and shunned for your evil actions.
To quote Stalin: "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." And in many stories and settings, this is true. It's easier to forgive "great evil", such as burning down a church or slaughtering a small down on the basis that you were brainwashed into evil. However it's much harder to get over personal hurts, as mentioned above. "Oh well you were evil." Doesn't truly assuage the feeling that your now-good-again friend murdered your daughter.
Blackmail asks a bigger question of what rating you would give your game, G? PG? PG-13? R? NC-17? Blackmail gets into all sorts of nastiness and it is NOT a route for the faint-of-heart DM. If the truly evil greater demon kidnaps the holy knight's child and attempts to blackmail the paladin into doing evil acts, the DM MUST be willing to go through with the devil's threat if the paladin says "NO." If the DM is unwilling to play such depravity, then what should have been a powerful, feared enemy becomes a joke. He instead throws the baby aside and disappears in a poof of smoke, his plans foiled because some holier-than-thou guy said "No." What a wimp. Blackmail can entail all sorts of horrible things that I DO NOT recommend be played out with any party whose members can't, on their own, watch an R-rated movie. That said it can create very interesting games with deep stories and very evocative moments.
As for the exact math of how one becomes a devil over a demon is one of those things that can be debated for ages. In a D&D game, I take the shortcut and say "He's evil, so he's got super-evil magic that can make non-devils into devils...so....*POOF* you're a devil!" Otherwise, technically speaking devilry is more of an alliance to evil, while demons are the more naturally-occurring monsters of the shadows. So "becoming a devil" is less an issue of genetics and more one of alliances. You serve the devil-god? You're a devil. Even if technically you're a demon, or a treant, or a potato.
To quote Bender: "Bender knows love, and love doesn't share itself with the world. Love is suspicious, love is needy. Love is fearful, love is greedy. My friends, there is no great love without great jealousy!"
Also: as for turning her into some sort of monster, the trope here is pretty standard and provides a few options:
A: She is monster-ized only physically. Because of this strange new body, the powers of darkness flowing through her, she finds it difficult to master her emotions and control herself. She's not evil, she's just scared, frustrated, angry and sad.
B: she is monster-ized mentally(and physically). This can range anywhere from complete brainwashing through overwhelming her mind with evil thoughts, seduction towards evil Darth Vader style, torture and blackmail(I will kill your babies and loved ones!) forcing her to do evil against her will, and so on.
-Depending on how you run it, this can either be very good or very lame. Choice A almost always comes across as a little cheesey, but it can be very endearing when a character tries their hardest to to "mind over matter" fight their new evil-inclined body.
Choice B has it's up's and downs as well. Slow falls into evil are often great, but they are delicate, she needs motivation and a certain willingness(which must be more than "I'm supernaturally inclined towards evil!) to do destructive, evil acts. Often these are done for the "greater good", but such things are generally considered to be a slippery slope. As Yoda says: "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." Evil acts in the name of a greater good are seductive because they are usually easier and more obvious, but when you do them long enough you lose sight of what is actually right and wrong.
Complete brainwashing into evil is less interesting, but fun if you like a nearly comedic level of moustache-twirling villiany. I say it's "less interesting" because it's usually too easy. The villain has evil magic powers that made you evil, so now you're evil, until ya know, you get the spell reversed and you're not. There's no character depth to these sorts of plots, which is why they're best played up in a fairly comedic manner rather than a serious manner.
-I should add, the reason complete brainwashing is usually uninteresting is because it requires a lot of setup in order to properly execute. If the answer to why your character did an evil act is "well because they're evil", then it's meaningless and treads into the over-the-top comedy villainy. Evil acts now due to brainwashing work best when they're built upon past character development. Lets say for example at some point your character couldn't decide between two men on who to date/love/marry. Now that she's evil, she makes the one she chose feel horrible and betrayed by sleeping with the one she didn't. Or maybe perhaps your character saved the child or friend of an ally, so now that she's evil, she goes out and tortures/kills that person. Brainwashing into evil is great in these sorts of instances, betrayal is a feeling that should stick with any character even after your character "becomes good again"(if ever). So that even when you are good, you are distrusted and shunned for your evil actions.
To quote Stalin: "One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." And in many stories and settings, this is true. It's easier to forgive "great evil", such as burning down a church or slaughtering a small down on the basis that you were brainwashed into evil. However it's much harder to get over personal hurts, as mentioned above. "Oh well you were evil." Doesn't truly assuage the feeling that your now-good-again friend murdered your daughter.
Blackmail asks a bigger question of what rating you would give your game, G? PG? PG-13? R? NC-17? Blackmail gets into all sorts of nastiness and it is NOT a route for the faint-of-heart DM. If the truly evil greater demon kidnaps the holy knight's child and attempts to blackmail the paladin into doing evil acts, the DM MUST be willing to go through with the devil's threat if the paladin says "NO." If the DM is unwilling to play such depravity, then what should have been a powerful, feared enemy becomes a joke. He instead throws the baby aside and disappears in a poof of smoke, his plans foiled because some holier-than-thou guy said "No." What a wimp. Blackmail can entail all sorts of horrible things that I DO NOT recommend be played out with any party whose members can't, on their own, watch an R-rated movie. That said it can create very interesting games with deep stories and very evocative moments.
As for the exact math of how one becomes a devil over a demon is one of those things that can be debated for ages. In a D&D game, I take the shortcut and say "He's evil, so he's got super-evil magic that can make non-devils into devils...so....*POOF* you're a devil!" Otherwise, technically speaking devilry is more of an alliance to evil, while demons are the more naturally-occurring monsters of the shadows. So "becoming a devil" is less an issue of genetics and more one of alliances. You serve the devil-god? You're a devil. Even if technically you're a demon, or a treant, or a potato.
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