Player not using sheets.

truth be told, it takes me LONGER if i am using a premade character sheet. I use my own word document (so i can lay it out in a way that is logical for me personally), but i do have all the stuff calculated ahead of time.

So I don't think your argument should be that he needs to use a premade sheet, your argument should be that his turn takes a little too long and the primary reason is that he needs his stats precalculated/easier to find. (the secondary reason is that he is distracted by 4chan, but that's a different topic entirely - clearly he's not as invested in the game as the rest of you are if he's that distracted)

has someone tried saying "(Name of person), your turns take a little longer than everyone else's and I am worried that it is starting to bother people. i noticed that one reason might be because it takes you a little time to find some of your stats, like skill bonus totals and attack bonuses. maybe you could write them out on the side so that you can find them easier. or if you want some help i can help you do that sort of thing."

(you know, a direct but nonconfontational question)

Summer-Knight925 said:

Any way of convincing a player to use a character sheet rather than a bastardized word document that has skills not added up, saves all around the page, attacks on different parts of the document, ect. ect.

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I deal with this by generating and maintaining PDF-form versions of all the characters for my group. This means that everyone is on a standard sheet, and everything is pre-calculated. (This really helps us, because we have a couple of players who aren't terribly familiar with the game - still, somehow, even after 18 months of the same campaign - and it really helps when I can immediately tell them where to look for a given number.)

That said, I wouldn't have a particular problem if one of the players chose to maintain his own sheet. Provided he actually did maintain a sheet. If he started taking forever for his actions, or there was evidence of significant cheating, then that would become an issue again.

I've sent him the link to the PDF, and it is slowing play way down everytime it is his turn as it takes nearly a minute for a single skill check.
Something that takes a player with a sheet 15 seconds...

and for reference, I am a player in the group and it is really getting on my nerves.

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This is really one for the DM. The way I would deal with it is to declare that any time he takes too long to look something up, his modifier is assumed to be +0, and his defence is assumed to be 10. That way, he's going to be hit a lot, he's going to fail rolls a lot.

(I would, of course, also offer to go back to producing his sheet for him, thus eliminating the problem.)

However, as a player in that group... all you can do (I think) is speak to the DM, and perhaps have a quiet word with the player. But if the DM refuses to deal with it, and the player doesn't take action, your choices drop down to two: suck it up, or leave.

Summer-Knight925 said:

We have 9 characters (8 players including the DM) and already it takes a while to get stuff done, just because the DM adds more monsters to keep the XP intake the correct amount (and to keep the challenge).

...

Further more, half the time hes on 4chan instead of playing, if not more than half the time.

And the reason why time is a big deal is... And my best friend/barbarian in the group/brother-from-anotha-mutha is leaving in March for the Marine Corps, and I wanted to finish this before he leaves, but with play grinding to a halt every round, it scares me.

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Right. My strong recommendation in this situation is simply to drop him from this game. It really seems he's just not actually interested in playing. Or, if he is, then he seems fairly solidly in the "casual gamer" camp.

Now, I have nothing against casual gamers in general. However, in this group, you've already got significant pressures on time, coupled with a very strong reason to press forward. So, yeah, drop him, at least until after March.

Summer-Knight925 said:

Any way of convincing a player to use a character sheet rather than a bastardized word document that has skills not added up, saves all around the page, attacks on different parts of the document, ect. ect.

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Honestly, we don't use character sheets, per se, rather Word documents with more information than what any existing character sheet includes.

Our word doc character sheets provide adjusted BAB for every weapon the PC possesses, so if he switches weapons, all the appropriate feat adjustments and other bonuses are included as well.

Obviously your player in question is only using a Word doc character sheet that's incomplete. I don't think the Word doc is the problem, rather what is missing on the sheet.

As a DM, I usually hand out blank character sheets, and kept them after the game. I don't actually mind people keeping them, but the amount of "I forgot my sheet" was annoying, and I use the sheets in determining appropriate difficulties, setting up interesting encounters & challenges, and to remember minutia about the character.

Players are welcome to use other pages for whatever, but if it's not on the sheet, it doesn't count. I make that clear. Scribble all you want in your notebook, but when you roll the dice, your modifier had better match what's written on the sheet, in the box marked "modifier". You can't use a magic item, feat, or ability that isn't on the sheet. If you haven't updated the sheet in two levels, tough trimenes.

Invest in Herolab from Lone Wolf. It does the job for you and at the start of each session just print out new sheets. Since using this my games have been a doddle to keep track of characters, spells, feats and respective DCs.

Summer-Knight925 said:

The DM, actually my father, is also upset about it.

We are doing the Rise of the Runelords adventure path, meeting every sunday from noon to 8.

We have 9 characters (8 players including the DM) and already it takes a while to get stuff done, just because the DM adds more monsters to keep the XP intake the correct amount (and to keep the challenge).

This player is a monk, who has not calculated his skills, saves, or attacks correctly.
His armor class yes, so I will give him that.
And his HP.

but saves, attacks, and skills, the three most common things you use.

Further more, half the time hes on 4chan instead of playing, if not more than half the time.


And the reason why time is a big deal is because we're going into the final part of the first adventure (meaning almost 1/6th of the way done) after about 4 sessions (this includes character creation)

And my best friend/barbarian in the group/brother-from-anotha-mutha is leaving in March for the Marine Corps, and I wanted to finish this before he leaves, but with play grinding to a halt every round, it scares me.

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It sounds like the player would rather be off doing something else. You've got the DM on your side, ask your other players and see how they feel. If they agree then give the player an ultimatum: shape up or ship out.

If there not okay with the idea of kicking someone out, then you could try using an "On deck" system. Where you let the person whose up next know that. Then they can start thinking about what they're doing and you're not spending 15 minutes while player x makes their chess move.

Summer-Knight925 said:

This player is a monk, who has not calculated his skills, saves, or attacks correctly.
His armor class yes, so I will give him that.
And his HP.

but saves, attacks, and skills, the three most common things you use.

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As a DM, I always keep a scratch pad with character's name, AC, hp (and damage taken), saves, Primary attack modifier and Perception bonuses. You might want to suggest this to your DM; that will save time there. For the most part, ya'll only have to worry with the bonuses from other skills.

All-in-all though, it sounds like this player may be bad fit for the group. With the group already having 8 people in it, it doesn't sound like the group would be put out if he were lost.

Not to mention he's playing a monk.

Our group has a barbarian (offense) and a human fighter (uber-defense tank build I "perfected" in 3e that the player is using, plus a mounted concept on top)

We'd only lose out on a good scout combatant, because currently, our ninja's ability to fight is...well nothing compared to the fighting power behind him.

Even if that isn't his job.

Just modified part of my Manifesto to read:

"Players must learn the rules. Nobody needs to pass a rules knowledge test or memorize it all - not even the DM - but it's more than reasonable to expect that players read the entire Players Handbook and be able to understand it. Anyone new to the game needs to accept that they will need to do a lot of reading and put some effort into learning the game, and there is a lot of information they need to absorb right from the start. The basics of the game can be taught in short order, perhaps an hour or at most one game session. After a few sessions of play they should NOT require having basics repeatedly explained, nor should the game be needlessly delayed while they figure out mechanically what their character can do or how they will do it. Only if the DM informs players up front that the rules DON'T MATTER, or the player actually has learning disabilities is anyone excused from achieving a general, functional knowledge of the game and demonstrating the ability to expeditiously employ its mechanics. Older editions have elements that are confused or leave questions unanswered. DM's are required to fill in those gaps in ways suitable to their game. Players should accept that not everything has a single, easy answer or definition. Newer editions generally employ much more calculation and tallying of modifiers. Players must be able to explain to the DM the source and function of bonuses and abilities, and others at the table should not have to repeatedly wait for a lazy player to complete his turn."