D&D 5E [Poll] Do You Like The Direction D&DN Is Heading In?

Now that the major, load bearing mechanics of the core system for D&D Next is pretty much set in

  • Absolutely Fantastic

    Votes: 25 10.6%
  • Pretty Good So Far

    Votes: 89 37.7%
  • I'm Ambivalent

    Votes: 51 21.6%
  • Not Really A Fan

    Votes: 49 20.8%
  • Bloody Awful

    Votes: 22 9.3%

  • Poll closed .

pemerton

Legend
[MENTION=6688937]Ratskinner[/MENTION], [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION] is basically right - I think with the core 3, plus the errata, you shoudn't be too badly off. What the errate doesn't cover in detail is upgrading monster damage: the formula is to multily average damage by 2(L+8)/(L+15) (ie MM uses dmage of 8 + half per additional level, whereas MM3 corrects this to L8). In Heroic tier it's not such a big deal, but you will need to upgrade damage at paragon.

I'd also add - solo creatures in MM, other perhaps than dragons, aren't that good.

But the story text and lore I think is great.

If you want a single post-core book, I would suggest MV. And after that, Demonomicon.
 

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Ahnehnois

First Post
So, whenever someone comes up and says, "I'm having problem X with Edition Y" the standard answer is always, "Cut back on the supplements and go core only."
Really? I don't see that as standard. IME, the standard answer is usually "Buy book Z". Certainly that's what the company wants.

For 3e the answer is more likely than not to be something you can do with Unearthed Arcana, which, fortunately, is SRDed.
 

Obryn

Hero
Here's a question for you 4e users out there. Just how "deprecated" are my first-run PHB, DMG, and MM with respect to the current game?
The PHB, not really at all. The DMG has some great advice. The Monster Manual, though, is basically deprecated, I'm sorry to say. It's not terrible at low levels, but not as good as the MV.
 

Hussar

Legend
Really? I don't see that as standard. IME, the standard answer is usually "Buy book Z". Certainly that's what the company wants.

For 3e the answer is more likely than not to be something you can do with Unearthed Arcana, which, fortunately, is SRDed.

I don't know what threads you are reading, but, "buy book X" is almost never the advice you will see for any edition before 4e. For 4e, yeah, that's often the advice.
 

Ratskinner

Adventurer
I've never really understood the complaints about "splat bloat," to be honest. If you don't like a book that was released after the game came out, simply ignore it. Nobody is forced to include that content in their game.

I think there's a lot of things historically and culturally that contribute to that conception/problem. As far as I recall, 2e had plenty of splat, but fewer DMs seemed to feel like they had to include or allow all of it. To the contrary, it seemed like most DMs were very picky about what they allowed or not in their games (even if they were collectors otherwise.) To a large extent, I think it was because supplements seemed targeted at DMs more than players (even the "Complete" books, IMO.) I didn't know very many 2e players with huge libraries that weren't also DMs. For me, this indicates that [MENTION=6680772]Iosue[/MENTION] is basically correct in his assessment. Additionally, many 2e supplements (non-Realms anyway) contained alternative classes that were strictly weaker than their "core" counterparts but much longer on flavorful abilities relevant to their setting.

That seemed to change with 3e and the OGL. I'm not sure why, but I think it was the vast modularity of things like spells, feats, prestige classes, etc. that were so over-produced in 3pp. A setting or campaign guide for 3e could and usually did include vastly more discrete units than a similar book in 2e. It was much harder to look at a book and analyze all those fiddly bits, and after all it was all supposed to be compatible. I'd imagine that would apply to authors as well. There really wasn't any good objective way to tell if a feat or spell was "too powerful" or not. Also, many of the books were obviously aimed at players, not DMs. Socially, people didn't want to tell their players "no" after they'd spent $20 on a new splat book. Additionally, "stronger" options have much broader appeal to players than DMs. IME, it was very easy for "kitchen sink" or "sandbox" campaigns to get wild very quickly. I had much better luck when doing things like "core + book X" and strongly enforcing an atmosphere or attitude on the campaign. I'm not suggesting that you needed to railroad, but you did need to recognize that the core books made a lot of assumptions about setting that would lead to a pretty gonzo game, especially for the so-called "tier 1" caster classes. (Which was only made clear in the fine print.)

I can't personally say too much about splat bloat in 4e. It would seem to me, as others have perhaps suggested, that 4e splat was much more about adding "breadth" rather than "depth" or power. Given that 4e (uniquely for D&D) had a fairly clearly defined power curve, that makes some sense to me. I imagine it could be, if the the group divided for and against some aspect of relevant flavor. Whether that was problematic for groups or not, I dunno. I haven't really heard of it being so.
 

Obryn

Hero
[MENTION=6688937]Ratskinner[/MENTION] - 4e has a lot of bloat in it feats and some in powers for certain classes. However, the overall bloat was mitigated by two related factors. (1) The character builder stored and printed everything, and kept it all reasonably organized, so it was all more manageable. (2) For better or worse, the builder proved a very steep barrier for 3rd parties to produce options that could easily end up as additional bloat.

Also, WotC had a vigorous errata process which pounder down a lot of the prouder nails. Sadly, they did nothing to remove or improve crappy feats.

-O
 

Ratskinner

Adventurer
I don't know what threads you are reading, but, "buy book X" is almost never the advice you will see for any edition before 4e. For 4e, yeah, that's often the advice.

I dunno 'bout that. I used to hear and say it plenty for 2e. I think many 2e fans would say that the first round of "Complete" books (especially for Fighters and Rogues) improved the game greatly (after that, much more hit-and-miss) Then again, 2e had a different vibe. Including a Sha'ir from Al-Qadim or a Jaguar Warrior from Maztica wasn't very likely to "break" your game. Having recently had the chance to go back and play BECMI, 1e, and an OSR mash-up game, I feel like our collective far too-human memories have projected many 3e-specific problems back into pre-WotC editions. (Of course, those editions had rafts of quirky problems all their own!:))

Then again, pre-WotC, the standard advice for fixing "problem X with edition Y" usually was just a house-rule or two, not massive updates and errata.
 

Ratskinner

Adventurer
[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], [MENTION=11821]Obryn[/MENTION], and [MENTION=22779]Hussar[/MENTION],

Thanks for the advice and thoughts on the 4e core books. It sounds like I may pick up a Monster Vault and some sticker paper to errata my hard-copies. (maybe even Martial Power, given the campaign I'm thinking of.)
 

Ratskinner

Adventurer
@Ratskinner - 4e has a lot of bloat in it feats and some in powers for certain classes. However, the overall bloat was mitigated by two related factors. (1) The character builder stored and printed everything, and kept it all reasonably organized, so it was all more manageable. (2) For better or worse, the builder proved a very steep barrier for 3rd parties to produce options that could easily end up as additional bloat.

So I take it that the mountain of fiddly bits was an issue for those using old-fashioned pencil and paper, more than for the electronically inclined.:hmm:
 

Obryn

Hero
So I take it that the mountain of fiddly bits was an issue for those using old-fashioned pencil and paper, more than for the electronically inclined.:hmm:
If I didn't have the CB, I'd do what I did in 3.x - limit sources. :) I am glad I don't need to limit things in that way, though. As you mentioned, most new stuff added breadth and variety rather than raw power, and a lot of those options are pretty sweet.

-O
 

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