Converting monsters from Tales From The Infinite Staircase

freyar said:

It just seems to me that the easiest thing to do is to have

Mirror Magic (Ex): Kamerel are able to cast arcane ? spells up to X level in the Outlands.

Then I'd either not give them Su or Sp abilities or else add SLAs to that ability.

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I was fancying leaving the Mirror Magic until we have the warrior Kamerel sorted out, since it's likely to take a lot of haggling to sort it out.

However, since you brought it up, I've come up with the following Cleon Special™ already:

Mirror Magic: Kamerel have their own form of magic, known as "mirror magic". This is similar in most respects to arcane magic, and kamerel have mirror-magic equivalents of all the arcane spellcaster classes and prestige classes (sorcerer, wizard, archmage et cetera). However, standard arcane magic is incomprehensible to a kamerel, and mirror magic is just as baffling to non-kamerel. A kamerel cannot gain levels in any standard arcane spellcasting class or cast standard arcane spells (including spell completion or spell trigger magic items), although they can cast standard spells in magic items that are command word or use-activated spells. Similarly, creatures who are not kamerel cannot understand or use mirror magic except for command word or use-activated magic items.

In principle kamerel could use divine magic, but they refuse to do so on ideological grounds. The concept of worshipping another entity is anathema to them.

The main advantage of mirror magic compared to normal magic is that it's less affected by the magic-restricting properties of the Outlands' central Spire. Mirror magic spells do not function at all within 100 miles of the Spire. At about 1,000 miles from the base of the Spire, an impeded magic trait begins, affecting 9th-level mirror magic spells. Moving closer to the base of the spire, mirror magic spells of lower levels are impeded, according to the table below.

To cast a mirror magic spell impeded by the Spire, a kamerel spellcaster must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the level of the spell). If the check fails, the spell does not function but is still lost as a prepared spell or spell slot. If the check succeeds, the spell functions normally.

Outlands Effects on Mirror Magic Spells Many mirror spells are functionally identical to standard arcane spells, apart from the above changes, although they may have cosmetic differences. A mirror magic fireball spell, for example, fills its area of effect with a shimmering heat-distortion instead of blazing flames. However, the kamerel have also developed a large number of special mirror magic spells, some of which are detailed in the Kamerel Mirror-Mage entry.

Among these special mirror magic spells are "invertible" spells. An invertible spell combines two spells into a single dual-purpose spell, with one spell being the "reflected opposite" of the other. The spellcaster chooses which of the two spells is produced when the invertible spell is cast. For example, kamerel have a 1st level Sorcerer/Wizard spell enlarge/reduce person that can be cast as either a enlarge person or a reduce person. All invertible spells require a mirror as a focus component. See the Kamerel Mirror-Mage for some examples of invertible spells.

Wow, that's a lot! I'm willing to take some of that, but overall it seems like too much. I really don't like the idea of creating a whole separate magic system when all we need to do is give them the ability to cast near the Spire. Are you willing to compromise on that?

freyar said:

Wow, that's a lot! I'm willing to take some of that, but overall it seems like too much. I really don't like the idea of creating a whole separate magic system when all we need to do is give them the ability to cast near the Spire. Are you willing to compromise on that?

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Well the Kamerel do have a whole separate magic system. The Infinite Staircase adventure says so quite clearly. It mostly works like standard arcane magic, so the above covers the mechanics. Apart from that they have a bunch of new spells and magic items/traps.

I'm thinking the "Pass Into Reflection" ability is likely to cause more headaches, since it's such a vaguely defined power.

The relevant quote is

Further, the leaders and drivers develop a special ability that allows them to memorize and prepare additional 1st-level spells instead of spells of other levels (which are useless here).

...

Mirror magic only works in the skilled hands of the kamerel. The spells (which are more appropriately thought of as special abilities) presented here will not function for any non-kamerel caster. For purposes of the Outlands’ cancellation of magic, all of these abilities should be considered to be the equivalent of 1st level spells.

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I don't see anything that says "separate magic system" clearly at all. I just see that they have (1) the ability to cast near the Spire, which is mostly accounted for by using only 1st level spells, and (2) some unique spells, which we're told should be thought of as unique SLAs or Su abilities. There's nothing about standard magic being incomprehensible to the kamerel or remotely as ornate as what you've written. I strongly feel that we should go for a streamlined design on this (and probably save some of the unique SLAs for drivers and leaders).

freyar said:

The relevant quote is

I don't see anything that says "separate magic system" clearly at all. I just see that they have (1) the ability to cast near the Spire, which is mostly accounted for by using only 1st level spells, and (2) some unique spells, which we're told should be thought of as unique SLAs or Su abilities. There's nothing about standard magic being incomprehensible to the kamerel or remotely as ornate as what you've written. I strongly feel that we should go for a streamlined design on this (and probably save some of the unique SLAs for drivers and leaders).

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There's lots of bits and pieces about the Kamerel's Mirror Magic scattered all through the Tales From the Infinite Staircase adventure they appear in. I haven't posted it here yet because (a) only some leader-type Kamerel use it, (b) it could get complicated and distract from working out the basic Kamerel Warrior, and (c) as mentioned above, there's a lot of scraps of info which would have taken some time to type out and collate - that's not so much a problem now, as I've finished transcribing the relevant text and it just need sorting out.

It's definitely as a separate magic system that's incomprehensible to non-kamerel, who in return can't comprehend normal magic.

So, I'd rather we return to my earlier proposal of:

Cleon said:

It'd seem easier if we convert a kamerel warrior first and leave the "magic stuff" for later.

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Sure, let's work on the warrior!

freyar said:

Sure, let's work on the warrior!

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Good!

Shall we move the argument on to the Size Distortion or the Pass Into Reflection?

Let's tackle Size Distortion first, since there's at least a proposal for it. This seems to be tied up with the whole Mirror Magic argument, though, since there is no way the ability as written can be an Ex ability. I mean, it affects their equipment! So I'd make it a low-level spell-equivalent SLA and give them the ability to use SLAs near the Spire. That doesn't have to be related to "mirror magic" however.

freyar said:

Let's tackle Size Distortion first, since there's at least a proposal for it. This seems to be tied up with the whole Mirror Magic argument, though, since there is no way the ability as written can be an Ex ability. I mean, it affects their equipment! So I'd make it a low-level spell-equivalent SLA and give them the ability to use SLAs near the Spire. That doesn't have to be related to "mirror magic" however.

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Well their equipment is probably formed from some kind of "mirror stuff", since they'll have brought it out of Reflection with them.

Anyhow, we should bear in mind that in the original adventure it's only the higher level Kamerels that are medium sized, the standard warriors and wizards are listed as "Size: S".

So, if they do have a size-distortion ability, it may be that Kamerel are naturally Small size and gain an ability to increase their size at, say, 6th level - which is the level of the "Driver" leader types.

So you want to give Size Distortion to them only when they hit a certain HD threshhold? I guess that's ok. But I still think it should be a magical ability.