How Important is the D&D Brand?

Is the brand identity of Dungeons and Dragons something other games should be targeting?

Is the brand identity of Dungeons and Dragons something other games should be targeting?


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So You're Going To Sneeze.

Do you reach for a kleenex? A Tissue? A Puffs?

I'm betting that you do so in roughly that order. Most people will say kleenex (leading brand name), others will use tissue (generic term). And a few stubborn, difficult folks will say "puffs", mostly expecting to be misunderstood so they can vent a little spleen.

What The Hell Are You Talking About Kleenex For?

We are in the middle of a really interesting period for our hobby -- probably more interesting in the long run than the original boom in 3rd party publication that followed the d20 Open License release.

The dominant brand -- Dungeons and Dragons -- has been essentially on a re-design hiatus for over a year and a half. They're still out there, developing products that use the IP like board games and computer games. They're working hard to be open and stay engaged with their existing fans through the monumental open playtest program. But for quite some time now they haven't really been pushing their core product.

This has created a window for other products. Some were already well established -- Pathfinder, which was born in the sturm und drang over the 4th edition release, is probably the most significant. Paizo's product quality has been the standard by which all others are measured for a long time, and their evolution of the d20 ruleset is no exception.

But this past year or so has given rise to many other games that I think could have been easily ignorable in other circumstances. Clearly, the rise of the Kickstarter RPG engine has roared into the D&D vacuum, and systems that might have been minor boutique products like FATE have exploded onto the scene and have developed audiences they might not have dreamed of just three years ago. Other games that have been around for a while are also getting a bump in the D&D break -- Savage Worlds, for one, seems to be coming on strong on many fronts.

The interesting question, though, is how much does that all matter to D&D? With the D&D Next fallow period coming (eventually) to an end, will D&D come back from it's walkabout and return to it's top dog position? Or are the other games, other publishers, becoming viable contenders for the top spot?

Another Brand Example

Think about this: In conversations with people who are not gamers, which gets the point across more quickly -- "Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game" or "World of Warcraft"?

It's World of Warcraft, hands down. And even today, when the market dominance that WOW had years ago has eroded substantially, it's still the descriptor that has the cultural capital to mean MMORPG better than the actual term does (at least to outsiders).


Beating the Brand

Imagine someone who has never played RPGs before. She likes Star Wars, thinks Avengers was awesome, likes board games like Risk and Settlers of Catan, but that's as far as she's gone.

So, you tell her "Vin Diesel, Wil Wheaton, and Dan Harmon play Pathfinder." Does that mean anything to her? How about "Vin Diesel, Wil Wheaton, and Dan Harmon play Dungeons and Dragons"?

The difference is the power of the D&D brand. The vast audience of non-geeks out there has heard of Dungeons and Dragons. Their perceptions D&D are probably silly and wrong to our ears, but at least they know what it is; there's cultural capital there that these other games simply don't have.

When you come right down to it, when it becomes time to explain a non-D&D game to an outsider, we probably need to mention D&D as starting point.

Now, I'm not a member of the staff of any of those other games….but I imagine that must get pretty galling after a while. Anyone else trying to take over the mindshare that D&D has is facing 35+ years of brand recognition, recognition reinforced by TV shows, movies, books cartoons, board games, comic books, and probably a breakfast cereal.

But Does It Matter?

The brand dominance of D&D isn't a bad thing -- even if your first choice RPG isn't Dungeons and Dragons. It's a reality that puts D&D in a position the other companies don't need to be in, however. For a long time now they have been the primary recruiters for the hobby.

Their sheer size, and their need for a large audience, has meant that they have need a flow of new players and new customers that they can't get by stealing them away from other games. (DDN seemed, at first, to be a bid to try to change this reality and try to win players back; I'm not so sure of that anymore).

But for a long time, I have felt like that's okay, because the other brands have been able to create their own audience by grabbing D&D players away from D&D. Someone who wants more story flexibility from D&D might discover FATE. Someone who wants faster action or wider variety of settings might discover Savage Worlds or GURPS. Someone who loves micromanaging might discover Rolemaster. Once you've been brought into the community there are games for every taste.

The question the #2, #3, or ambitious #10 games out there need to answer is Can We Compete For D&D's Position as the Gateway Game? And Do We Want To?

And if we want to, HOW?

Sidebar: Is there a Risk for WOTC?

When a brand becomes the generic term for the product, there are grave risks for the company with that brand. It's vitally important to defend the brand name, because once the brand becomes that generic descriptor (aka a Generic Trademark) the company may lost the ability to trademark their brand name.

So, It's actually important for the WOTC brand managers -- while keeping the Dungeons and Dragons brand on top of the heap -- from becoming the generic name for the heap of RPGs. They should cringe at the idea that their brand name is used when we talk about our hobby -- despite the fact that it remains the most clear way of communicating what we do to people who aren't part of the community.

They've got nearly 40 years of brand identity behind them, but if they aren't careful, they might lost the ability to control it. And that's why you'll never see a WOTC staffer use the term "Dungeons and Dragons" as a collective term, the way I'm arguing the general public might.

Back To Beating Them

For more than a year Pathfinder has been outselling D&D. That's not much of a surprise to anyone -- D&D's primary delivery method had become online via subscription, and they haven't been selling much except reprints of old editions for a while now.

When D&D comes back, they're going to roar back into the stores and it's going to be interesting to see if Pathfinder can remain on top. It's also going to be interesting to see if Wizards continues the subscription model for the game. I'd bet they do, but anything's possible. Maybe they'll just run the whole thing through Facebook. Everybody loves Facebook.

Any game property that really wants to try to compete for that brand recognition -- especially in the awareness of people who are outside the hobby -- needs to be creating that awareness through non-rpg IP.

Take a look, for example, at the way Defiance is both an MMO and a TV Show. The MMO is getting far more attention that it may deserve because people are also interested in the TV show. Can you imagine a similar tie-in show on SyFy for Pathfinder? A live-action show called "Pathfinder Society" about an adventuring company? Heck, I'd watch that, even if the effects and writing were Sharknado-level bad.

What do you think? Should companies like Paizo try to compete for that brand identity space in the general public?
 

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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Yeah; that's not analogous to a comparison between Coke and Pepsi. It's analogous to a comparison between Coke and pastry products. It's a specific brand vs. a whole category of brands.

Well, I wasn't the one who suggested the D&D/Pathfinder/OSR thing. It isn't like the OSR is only one brand, either, but I didn't see you complaining about that.

Be that as it may, I think you're wrong. D&D is a role playing game. Pathfinder is a role playing game. The various games of the OSR are role playing games. Other RPGs are still RPGs, dude. It isn't like comparing Coke to pastry - they're all still the same basic sort of product. It's like comparing Coke to all the stuff you see in the soda section of your local Whole Foods (an organic/health-food leaning market chain in the US - I don't know if you have them over there).

And, in terms of market dynamics, I think I still have it right. Imagine you're a brand manager at WotC or Paizo. Part of your job is, of course, to keep an eye on your competition, right? You're spending some of your limited, valuable time looking at what's out there, keeping an eye out for the next thing that might be a challenge to your market share. Now, I'll agree that there's no single brand that's poised to suddenly take off like a rocket, so if you're keeping your ear to the ground, you're looking more at groups of things. Are you spending more time watching what's happening with OSR games, or with things out by FATE, Savage Worlds, and Shadowrun?

Before you answer, remember that your own first "Spotlight" was *not* on an OSR game. :)
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Well, I wasn't the one who suggested the D&D/Pathfinder/OSR thing. It isn't like the OSR is only one brand, either, but I didn't see you complaining about that.

Be that as it may, I think you're wrong. D&D is a role playing game. Pathfinder is a role playing game. The various games of the OSR are role playing games. Other RPGs are still RPGs, dude. It isn't like comparing Coke to pastry - they're all still the same basic sort of product. It's like comparing Coke to all the stuff you see in the soda section of your local Whole Foods (an organic/health-food leaning market chain in the US - I don't know if you have them over there).

And, in terms of market dynamics, I think I still have it right. Imagine you're a brand manager at WotC or Paizo. Part of your job is, of course, to keep an eye on your competition, right? You're spending some of your limited, valuable time looking at what's out there, keeping an eye out for the next thing that might be a challenge to your market share. Now, I'll agree that there's no single brand that's poised to suddenly take off like a rocket, so if you're keeping your ear to the ground, you're looking more at groups of things. Are you spending more time watching what's happening with OSR games, or with things out by FATE, Savage Worlds, and Shadowrun?

Before you answer, remember that your own first "Spotlight" was *not* on an OSR game. :)

I think you've received the exact, diametric opposite of the message I was attempting to convey! I was agreeing with you (that's why I said "yeah", and not "no"). Poorly, apparently! :)
 

Lord_Blacksteel

Adventurer
"I think D&D has waited too long to release D&D next.

They have lost way too much of the market to just barge back into the hobby gaming market and just assume their place as if nothing ever happened."

Well first, I think there's a lot more emotion than reason in this statement. D&D is still the biggest name in the game. You may not think they deserve to be anymore, but it still carries weight with people.

Second, people who are interested have been able to play versions of it for free for over a year now. I would bet that's a pretty big number. Also, they've been servicing the retro crowd with a steady stream of reprints, no doubt gathering both cash and goodwill from that segment of the population too.

"When they do release their D&D Next brand, they'll have to compete with the company for which all games are compared to in Paizo and their Pathfinder brand."

Yes they will. Right now, according to the figures on this very site, D&D is #2 in sales with no current edition in print! I suspect having actual new material to sell will bump that up quite a bit and displace PF for months at least. What will be interesting is where things stand a year after the D&D new-edition-release-wave is over. Familiarity vs. the new shiny plus the D&D name.
 
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Agreed.

Too many FLGSs have been starved of product during the Mearlsian winding down of D&D sales and that has sent many to the wall and those that remain now have their loyalties elsewhere simply out of necessity. More importantly, the distributors have been starved of new D&D product during this time... and they don't know when the next edition is going to land.

Maybe D&D as a brand can recover from this and maybe it can't. But damage has been done.

Funny, I thought tons of people always complained about how too many books were coming out and that their wallets were getting sucked dry.
I guess it's be careful what you wish for...
 

tomBitonti

Adventurer
Funny, I thought tons of people always complained about how too many books were coming out and that their wallets were getting sucked dry.
I guess it's be careful what you wish for...

I'd love an Illithid adventure path, say, set on Umbra. Or a walk through the mountains in Greyhawk, to rewalk the path taken by survivors after the Rain of Colorless Fire. Or simply set in the Underdark of any of the campaign worlds. There is a huge space of content which could be used as a base for adventure type products, which languishes.

About branding ... I was looking at "Dungeon Command": https://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndmin/dungeoncommand in a gaming store today. And it took me a while to connect the product, which I recognized as a miniature skirmish game, with the D&D brand. The brand logo is there on the box, but you have to look for it. And the connection, for me, was that they were reused miniatures from the prepainted plastics line, not an association with a brand identity.

Thx!

TomB
 

Scrivener of Doom

Adventurer
Funny, I thought tons of people always complained about how too many books were coming out and that their wallets were getting sucked dry.
I guess it's be careful what you wish for...

Have you ever been involved in business?

There's always a balance between the amount of stock and variety of stock: too much or too little is going to cause problems, either way. My speculation - supported by anecdotal evidence and not hard data - is that the lack of D&D stock has caused problems for FLGSs which are, in many cases, marginal businesses anyway.
 

Lwaxy

Cute but dangerous
Ah the advantage of being in Germany. D&D isn't the main RPG here. When I need to give an RPG exaple I can always use DSA - although I personally dislike that system. ;)
 

Lord_Blacksteel

Adventurer
Have you ever been involved in business?

There's always a balance between the amount of stock and variety of stock: too much or too little is going to cause problems, either way. My speculation - supported by anecdotal evidence and not hard data - is that the lack of D&D stock has caused problems for FLGSs which are, in many cases, marginal businesses anyway.

I don't know - that ICV2 chart that everyone takes as gospel says D&D is still #2 in sales. Presumably that's mostly coming from the reprint hardcovers and there has been a steady stream of those.

its a wonder D&D has still maintain his position.. but why aren't they releasing next?

They're playtesting it - you can go download it for free right now. Looking at what they have right now I'm in no hurry to spend money on it - are you? Hopefully they end up with something decent and they start selling it about a year from now.
 

Puggins

Explorer
You only need to look at the 2e/3e handover to see the power of the D&D brand name. You can even draw quite a few parallels between now and then, honestly.

The late nineties were a bad time for D&D, at least from my perspective. I think D&D was in dead heat with the Storyteller system in terms of sales, TSR was in the gutter, and a lot of former D&D players were wandering off to try a lot of the systems that had popped up around that time- and there were quite a few good systems even back then.

Then 3e came out, and the eyes of the entire roleplaying world swung around to d20. Again, this is speaking from my perspective, but the transition was radical- dozens of friends that had played D&D but were no longer into it came stampeding back. It was shocking to me.

Can 5e do the same thing? The answer is yes- the D&D name just has that much pull. But talking about what a product CAN do is different from talking about what it WILL do. Will it do the same thing? I have serious doubts that it will.
 

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