Martial Practices inferior to Rituals????

AbdulAlhazred · Apr 18, 2017

Garthanos said:
That much is similar to rituals - the mechanics would have to be made more intense to act as a full on feat or skill power like benefit, in my opinion.

Ways to boost it might be other enhancement to aid other... allow it to be done as a minor, allow aid attack or aid defense without a roll. (this is actually in keeping with the paradigm spend the price get the effect)

What other benefits could one encapsulate in silent battlefield communication?

Well, there MIGHT now and then be a narrative concern with say being overheard while discussing tactics in combat. Your own 'battle speak' would tend to mitigate that. Its still pretty weak.

Frankly ALL linguistic elements of RPG scenarios fall into the same category. Any NPC could reasonably speak your language, the fact that they don't is merely a contrivance of the GM meant to produce some plot effect. You could learn 101 languages, the GM could still confront you with one you don't know if that's what he's determined to do. At best I think that learning languages falls into [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s realm of "ways to signal your interests as a player", and that's not something that need be or should be regulated by scarce resources.

Garthanos · Apr 18, 2017

AbdulAlhazred said:
Well, there MIGHT now and then be a narrative concern with say being overheard while discussing tactics in combat. Your own 'battle speak' would tend to mitigate that. Its still pretty weak.

Battle speak has to do something worth while.

AbdulAlhazred said:
Frankly ALL linguistic elements of RPG scenarios fall into the same category. Any NPC could reasonably speak your language, the fact that they don't is merely a contrivance of the GM meant to produce some plot effect. You could learn 101 languages, the GM could still confront you with one you don't know if that's what he's determined to do. At best I think that learning languages falls into @pemerton's realm of "ways to signal your interests as a player", and that's not something that need be or should be regulated by scarce resources.

Right I agree with standard language scope.

I am thinking of this as a specialized language with battlefield value specifically ie I am trying to make it a Martial Power not "just" a language its most direct expressions coordinate and direct combat actions like a function of the warlord class. Is the aid other with range and reliability enough? would the surge allow it to be done as a minor?

Garthanos · Apr 19, 2017

Speaking of aid another, I wonder do people join hands in a witches circle so to speak to aid the working of rituals?

Could a coven with a silent link do so with some range

AbdulAlhazred · Apr 19, 2017

Garthanos said:
Battle speak has to do something worth while.

Right I agree with standard language scope.

I am thinking of this as a specialized language with battlefield value specifically ie I am trying to make it a Martial Power not "just" a language its most direct expressions coordinate and direct combat actions like a function of the warlord class. Is the aid other with range and reliability enough? would the surge allow it to be done as a minor?

Well, in the somewhat abstract space of power effects of 4e where powers can perform retcons and act as plot coupons I would say that MANY Warlord powers could be flavored as being an effect of 'battle speak'. When you reposition your ally for a better attack or even when you force move an enemy, it could be a result of better communications. Much like the 'seal teams' and whatnot in TV shows use hand signals (I assume this is in some degree drawn from RL, though I wouldn't know myself).

I could see this sort of thing being a 'group feat', like the tribal feats that 4e experimented with in a few places. They weren't bad ideas, and some of them were potentially rather good if you could convince everyone to spare a feat slot for them. So maybe each character who gets 'Battle Speech' as a feat can gain some sort of advantage(s). Like maybe they all get an initiative and/or surprise bonus. Maybe they get a free shift of several squares on the first turn of the fight to represent some better level of advanced cooperation, etc.

Garthanos said:
Speaking of aid another, I wonder do people join hands in a witches circle so to speak to aid the working of rituals?

Could a coven with a silent link do so with some range

Well, that might be another advantage of some form of Battle Speech is that you can do some AA from range.

Garthanos · Apr 19, 2017

AbdulAlhazred said:
Well, in the somewhat abstract space of power effects of 4e where powers can perform retcons and act as plot coupons I would say that MANY Warlord powers could be flavored as being an effect of 'battle speak'.

Yup perfectly in keeping and I am thinking to allow enable warlords to have martial practices as class feature, I kind of think they would have if MP were taken seriously and built for the PHB, I am looking at the bardic ritual ability. Perhaps they could have Battle Speak free as well.

AbdulAlhazred said:
Well, that might be another advantage of some form of Battle Speech is]
that you can do some AA from range.

yup already mentioned that element earlier

Garthanos said:
As written it is similar to the feat disciple of law they both have the +5 but disciple of law enhances the benefit of the result to +3 AND has no surge cost for use that is a big benefit for DoL.

Though it has a perk of less need to be adjacent to ally to aid them I was thinking range 5 (could make it 10 if no stealth is intended).

So Battle Speak allows range 10 Aid attack and Aid Defense in a noisy hectic environment reduce the range to 5. For a healing surge you do not have to roll and it can be done as a minor action.
After level 11 it can also be used for aid another. (by this time it is effectively a full language instead of
primarily a combat description vocabulary)

The Healing surge is a pretty intense cost in the middle of a fight so I want it to have real value.
[MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION] I am defenitely liking it and finding myself comfortable with it being not a ritual
but something new.

Garthanos · Apr 21, 2017

Why isnt this a normal function of skill use? Is is intended to cover wild untrained mounts to function like they were trained? Hmmm maybe but even then its a stretch - If you can convince a beast that is not even normally a mount... like a large bear now that would be an achievement. Being able to convince a whole bunch of wild horses to let you and your allies ride them? Being able to get close to such a group without them running off ie seen as harmless. Some non-standards perhaps would allow challenging a leader and if you can persuade the leader the rest follow. Is if fixable?

Perhaps something different

Maybe something like being able to create a special bond with a mount like Zorro Does.

Mount Bonding
Nature and Athletics. Mount uses your defenses, can spend a healing surge to grant it temporary HP.
Will not allow anyone but you to ride it. Can let the mount loose and it will follow at a distance
returning on a whistle. Your athletics and nature skills and level wrt mount abilities are treated
as +3 higher when interacting with your mount.

AbdulAlhazred · Apr 21, 2017

Yes, I think it covers cases where a monster normally isn't really (by any specific 4e rule at least) likely to decide to allow you to mount it. Note that this is ANY 'nonhostile creature', which does cover a lot of ground (though the required mount keyword is fairly limiting, as a lot of creatures that might logically be subject lack the keyword).

So, you might drop the keyword requirement, though it was presumably there to make things more thematic. I also don't understand why this is level 8, its not really that big a deal as written (may save you a few gp on a mount, but then it only lasts a short while at best). 'nonhostile' is pretty ambiguous too. Is that meant to imply that the creature must be generally 'peaceable', or a type of creature which generally wouldn't attack unprovoked? Or maybe just that THIS PARTICULAR creature isn't actively engaged in hostilities with the PC? I'd go for the later interpretation, all the thing need be is not actually your enemy at the moment.

So, maybe reduce it to level 3, relax the mount keyword (though GMs may still need to be careful to avoid orcs being dragooned into carrying halflings and pixies into combat and such) and interpret nonhostile generously.

Garthanos · Apr 21, 2017

And let you use it to do a trample like effect (though that is a feat)

This with regards to handle steed... only get the trample ability if the creature doesn't have its own mount abilities.

Garthanos · Apr 21, 2017

Isnt handling an animal include getting them not to run off????

IE the creature WILL remain near unless something untoward interrupts the process.

Garthanos · Apr 21, 2017

Garthanos said:
Mount Bonding
Nature and Athletics. Mount uses your defenses, can spend a healing surge to grant it temporary HP.
Will not allow anyone but you to ride it. Can let the mount loose and it will follow at a distance
returning on a whistle. Your athletics and nature skills and level wrt mount abilities are treated
as +3 higher when interacting with your mount.

Begs the question can one bond more than one... (I think that answer is no.)

Martial Practices inferior to Rituals????

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

AbdulAlhazred

Legend

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight

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