Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Perhaps to make it worth a feat one should give ahem free karma ie a wealth source to pay for the various acquisitions a daily allotment. It would certainly fit the flavor.
Martial Practices inferior to Rituals????
Perhaps to make it worth a feat one should give ahem free karma ie a wealth source to pay for the various acquisitions a daily allotment. It would certainly fit the flavor.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
Adjusting the naming and verbiage of my batman practice, Provisioning / Trained Preparedness, its only as ultimate as you are willing to put karmic resources in to right? and a reminder that being prepared may be habitual but it is often a trained habit dependent on discipline.(see mentioning the scouts), most of this to make it feel slightly more like a martial practice (also properly attributed to Martial Practice III.)
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Well, if you want to relate it to actual performance in the real world, just as a starting point for judging the degree of 'epicness' of what PCs are going to do...
7000 picked troops of Gaius Claudius Nero marched from Grumentum to the Metauro, something like 200 miles, although I can't find anything that definitively states the time consumed on the march. We only know that the Battle of the Metaurus took place on 22 June 207BC and that Nero arrived the day before, the 21st, in the evening.
"There was no loitering, no straggling, no halt except while taking food; they marched day and night; they gave to rest hardly enough time for the needs of their bodies."
-- Livy 27.45
where it is made clear that the march was 'several' days. This was also ideal conditions, good roads, supplies pre-cached and people coming out along the way of the march to provide provisions, pack animals, and reinforcements (6000 foot and 1000 cavalry marched, MORE arrived than started).
Anyway, make it 200 miles, it may have been a week, perhaps slightly less. Certainly they made over 30 miles a day, and probably more, as a 20-40 mile march wasn't considered really extraordinary, though a week of them apparently was pretty notable.
Also note the cavalry, which supplied advance forces which went ahead and arranged supplies etc. So we can see that certainly under ideal conditions your horses outdid your men, even over a fair distance (it is said that a Mongol Warrior, with remounts, could cross from Eastern Europe to Karakorum in 2 weeks).
However, horses aren't so good in rough terrain, thick forest, etc. They also need to be rested and supplied with grain or at the very least quality forage (which takes time, they don't eat THAT fast). In difficult conditions you can assume men on foot will beat any animal, except maybe an ass.
I think its safe to assume that tough PCs, traveling roads, can NORMALLY make 30 miles in a day, calling it solid exercise but not enough to be debilitating. Beyond that, or tossing in worse conditions, things start to get into the real serious 'forced march' area. I'm thinking heroes, particularly with training and well shod, can push themselves for several days and probably outdo Nero's legions.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
OK what kinds of skill challenges are we thinking that makes this situational ability on the table?
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Well, there can certainly be SCs that involve 'getting there before XYZ', which would be the sort of classic version. Outracing some kind of pursuit or some sort of catastrophe would be another example. Simply demonstrating one's prowess could be a less common example. "Keeping up with the marching orc horde" while being marched in chains, that sort of thing is a related example.
Obviously the speed of the march might only be one ploy or one element of a larger SC too.
In narrative terms I would simply use it as justification for arriving in a place at a time that is sooner than expected. That is where there isn't a conflict being decided then you would simply decide what is possible based on having this practice available.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
And chases are not an uncommon skill challenge but in this case it needs to be a challenge with persistent pursuers where I would normally have people making endurance checks as significant part of it. It seems if you have a whole group with the practice and if you win the short escape part you have will have an auto win on the longer part ... otherwise the ones capable of doing the long part without effort ie getting free successes,could then mix in helping their allies succeed.
i suppose the pursuers might be wolves or something capable of running protractedly too. (Humans and wolves have a lot in common). Lets call them Wargs.
If the party was doing the chasing catching up quickly, could make up for failures in tracking for instance
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AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I would say that just because you got ahead early isn't going to mean you STAY ahead. Wolves, other humans, etc, if they're determined to keep after you, then they may well catch up again! Just because you beat feet and got out of sight does NOT mean you can outlast someone in a long hard grueling pursuit over days or more. Obviously having this practice would be a benefit. At the worst it should greatly assist the character who has it in getting successes on something like Endurance checks to keep moving. As a group effort I'd assume he'd also spend some of this extra energy he's got to help his compatriots (lighten their load, give them tips, maybe forge ahead and prepare a meal so the slowest ones can eat on the move, etc).
On that basis I can see it as a straight up bonus to checks with a primary skill on the SC, and also allow for some secondary checks to AA or provide advantage to other characters checks. Heck, worst case you go ahead a ways scout out a good ambush spot, maybe build a deadfall or two, and then when the rest of the party shows up with the bad guys hot on their heels all of a sudden the tables get turned. I'd call that maybe a result of say getting 2 failures quick or something. The GM says "OK, you can hear the enemy marching behind you, they seem to be about to catch up. Unless you can come up with a new plan its going to be a fight" at which point the practice user forges ahead and basically admits defeat, or at least hedges the party's bets.
Manbearcat
Legend
[MENTION=82504]Garthanos[/MENTION] and [MENTION=82106]AbdulAlhazred[/MENTION] , I think the best way Martial Practices could be integrated into orthodox 4e's overall system machinery is by:
1) Differentiating it from Rituals in how PCs activate them (good job there guys. Healing Surges versus the level-1 Coin pool PCs are expected to have).
2) Make Rituals and Martial Practices all do the same sort of stuff. You're talking:
a) Allows a PC to reframe a potential situation from one scene to another. A Wizard Teleports a group and we transition scenes/locales "from here to there" while a Ranger leads them safely on a Perilous Journey and does the same thing. A Druid sends an offscreen missive via an animal friend. A Fighter sends an offscreen missive via freaking tireless legs, implacable will/stamina...or maybe via a Follower.
b) Invoke a Skill Challenge. Adjure performs an exorcism. Weight of Death's Stare allows the Fighter to project her fortitude into the Mental Realm (or wherever) of the host and attempt to cast the demon out (via combat Skill Challenge) for a physical combat encounter with the possessing creature...the host's life pending.
c) Creating a single-use minimum d20 Roll (such as 5 for 1 surge/n coin or 8 for 2 surges/x coin).
d) Constrain the GM in rendering post-resolution failure by giving the player some kind of authorial power or veto right when the situation is changed adversely.
That would do the trick.
1) Differentiating it from Rituals in how PCs activate them (good job there guys. Healing Surges versus the level-1 Coin pool PCs are expected to have).
2) Make Rituals and Martial Practices all do the same sort of stuff. You're talking:
a) Allows a PC to reframe a potential situation from one scene to another. A Wizard Teleports a group and we transition scenes/locales "from here to there" while a Ranger leads them safely on a Perilous Journey and does the same thing. A Druid sends an offscreen missive via an animal friend. A Fighter sends an offscreen missive via freaking tireless legs, implacable will/stamina...or maybe via a Follower.
b) Invoke a Skill Challenge. Adjure performs an exorcism. Weight of Death's Stare allows the Fighter to project her fortitude into the Mental Realm (or wherever) of the host and attempt to cast the demon out (via combat Skill Challenge) for a physical combat encounter with the possessing creature...the host's life pending.
c) Creating a single-use minimum d20 Roll (such as 5 for 1 surge/n coin or 8 for 2 surges/x coin).
d) Constrain the GM in rendering post-resolution failure by giving the player some kind of authorial power or veto right when the situation is changed adversely.
That would do the trick.
Garthanos
Arcadian Knight
The Warrior wrestles with death while rogues bargains with it (hey getting drunk has its benefits) ... or quests through the ladies Cauldron or Grail into another world if they were too late. Can include Xena like accupressure to suppress pain, Surgery to remove physical Afflictions (far lower than level 8)
Current examples seem to include either enabling taking 10 when you normally cannot Conditions you cannot, if the situation is rushed or dangerous ie with implications OR adding 5 in a particular situation.
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