Pathfinder 1E Rules Questions

Hey!

I was hoping you guys could help me out with a couple of rules questions. : )

1)
My group's summoner has made an eidolon capable of wielding a weapon - a longsword. In addition, he has givin the eidolon the "reach evolution." Can the eidolon attack creatures within 5 feet of itself?

The rules for reach weapons state that "with a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet)." Is this true when it comes to other methods for gaining reach?

2)
One of my players insist that the group's sorcerer suffers a penalty to AC for fighting completely unarmed. I tried looking it up but failed to find anything, so I figured I'd ask the experts. Is this true?

Thanks!

1) The "reach weapon" text refers to polearms or other weapons that extend the creature's natural reach. In this case, the augmented attack of the eidolon does not strike me as a "typical reach weapon". AFAIK, it should be able to strike creatures 10 ft. or 5 ft. away like any other monster with reach. The text is not 100% clear, but given that creatures can normally strike anything within their reach, I would expect any situation where this is not the case to be noted as an exception.

To me, it sounds like the evolution was meant to apply only to natural weapons and that its use with manufactured weapons was not anticipated by whoever wrote it. But you'd have to ask someone at Paizo to be sure.

2) Nope. Penalty to attacks, yes (-4 for not having Improved Unarmed Strike, or a weapon with proficiency), but you're not making attacks. Some might characterize the inability to make AoO's as a penalty. However the AC is unaffected.

Quixoticelixir said:

Hey!

I was hoping you guys could help me out with a couple of rules questions. : )

1)
My group's summoner has made an eidolon capable of wielding a weapon - a longsword. In addition, he has givin the eidolon the "reach evolution." Can the eidolon attack creatures within 5 feet of itself?

The rules for reach weapons state that "with a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet)." Is this true when it comes to other methods for gaining reach?

2)
One of my players insist that the group's sorcerer suffers a penalty to AC for fighting completely unarmed. I tried looking it up but failed to find anything, so I figured I'd ask the experts. Is this true?

Thanks!

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Ahnehnois said:

1) The "reach weapon" text refers to polearms or other weapons that extend the creature's natural reach. In this case, the augmented attack of the eidolon does not strike me as a "typical reach weapon". AFAIK, it should be able to strike creatures 10 ft. or 5 ft. away like any other monster with reach. The text is not 100% clear, but given that creatures can normally strike anything within their reach, I would expect any situation where this is not the case to be noted as an exception.

To me, it sounds like the evolution was meant to apply only to natural weapons and that its use with manufactured weapons was not anticipated by whoever wrote it. But you'd have to ask someone at Paizo to be sure.

2) Nope. Penalty to attacks, yes (-4 for not having Improved Unarmed Strike, or a weapon with proficiency), but you're not making attacks. Some might characterize the inability to make AoO's as a penalty. However the AC is unaffected.

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I suspect Ahnehnois is correct. I just wanted to provide citing and some backup.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/eidolons#TOC-Reach-Ex-

One of an eidolon’s attacks is capable of striking at foes at a distance. Pick one attack. The eidolon’s reach with that attack increases by 5 feet.

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1. As far as I can tell this is meant to be applied only to natural weapons; proficiency with a longsword wouldn't be a part of the Eidolon, though like Ahnehnois, I would say that you have to ask paizo specifically to be 100% sure.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Armor-Class

10 + armor bonus + shield bonus + Dexterity modifier + other modifiers

Other Modifiers

Many other factors modify your AC.
Enhancement Bonuses

Enhancement bonuses apply to your armor to increase the armor bonus it provides.
Deflection Bonus

Magical deflection effects ward off attacks and improve your AC.
Natural Armor

If your race has a tough hide, scales, or thick skin you receive a bonus to your AC.
Dodge Bonuses

Dodge bonuses represent actively avoiding blows. Any situation that denies you your Dexterity bonus also denies you dodge bonuses. (Wearing armor, however, does not limit these bonuses the way it limits a Dexterity bonus to AC.) Unlike most sorts of bonuses, dodge bonuses stack with each other.
Size Modifier

You receive a bonus or penalty to your AC based on your size. See Table: Size Modifiers.

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2. So, I see nothing that would modify the AC of the character. Though, as already said, there would be a penalty to ATTACK because of lack of proficiency. You get around this by; (a) wielding a weapon with which you have proficiency (a dagger or any other weapon on your proficiency list), (b) not wielding a weapon with which you do not have proficiency (spells would apply here, not a weapon, but you do not rely on unarmed strike attacks), (c) gaining the improved unarmed strike feat (which gives proficiency in unarmed strikes, also allows to respond to AoOs without a weapon in hand). But yeah, the reason he would get a penalty to attack is due to punching an enemy with his fists, when he isn't trained to do so. If he is wielding spells there is no problem, it only applies to making attacks unarmed.

Quixoticelixir said:

2)
One of my players insist that the group's sorcerer suffers a penalty to AC for fighting completely unarmed. I tried looking it up but failed to find anything, so I figured I'd ask the experts. Is this true?

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Last I've ever heard of a 4 point AC penalty for being unarmed was a D&D PC game.

Also I think at some time in 2E AD&D attacking unarmed while your foe had a weapon gave them a free attack at +4 to hit and / or damage.

This might sound a bit weird, but is the bonus feat you get for being a fighter, is that considered one of your feats? Like, if you have bonus feat, you can only have one other feat because bonus feat takes your first pick?

Innominatam said:

This might sound a bit weird, but is the bonus feat you get for being a fighter, is that considered one of your feats? Like, if you have bonus feat, you can only have one other feat because bonus feat takes your first pick?

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I'm not sure I follow. Let me explain the basics and see if that helps, if not please clarify.

First level (let's say human) fighter has a feat for first level - that everyone gets regardless of race or class. He gets another feat for being human, and a third for first level fighter.

Now, the bonus feat from human can select any feat for which thy qualify. The same goes for the first level feat, which all characters with one level/Hit Die qualify. So, they could select anything from a metamagic feat, to a combat feat, skill focus, or anything they wish - so long as they qualify.

On the other hand, the fighter bonus feat has requirements as listed in the fighter description.

[h=4]Bonus Feats[/h] At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as Combat Feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”
Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.

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So, at first level that human fighter has three feats. As he advances he is going to pick up other feats but some are going to be limited and some are not, the same as at first level. A 5th level (straight class, human) fighter will have two general feats (one from human, one from his level alone) at first level, PLUS two more general feats - one for 3rd level and one for 5th level. In addition, he will have a bonus combat-related feat from fighter at levels; 1, 2, and 4. So, in total he'll have 1(human),1(level),1(fighter),2(fighter),3(level),4(fighter),5(level) or 7 feats at 5th level.

Does that clear anything up? If not, like I said please explain. I start at the basic level just to make sure we have a common foundation before continuing.

Hero Labs - which is normally 99.9% always accurate has the reach evolution only applying to the natural weapons of the Eidolon.

1) From Paizo's FAQ

Summoner: If I choose the reach evolution for my eidolon, how many of its attacks gains increased reach?

The ability description says "pick one attack," not "pick one attack type." So if your eidolon has two claws and you pick "claw" for the reach evolution, only one claw gets increased reach. (The reach evolution is intended to let you emulate having a dragon-eidolon, as a dragon's bite attack has greater reach than its claws.)

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I've personally played/ran games where the Reach evolution was allowed to effect all of one of the following categories [1] Tentacles [2] Claws: Limbs, Arms [3] Claws: Limbs, Legs. I've also played/ran games where the Reach evolution was allowed to effect manufactured weapons. In those cases, the manufactured weapon can hit targets at 5-10ft or 10-15ft for reach weapons.

Both are stronger than intended and you are well within your right to require a higher cost to allow either. Personally I would not allow both at the same time. I don't want to see a 10 armed eidolon wielding 10 longs swords hitting their targets from 10ft ways. Cause I know each level gained there are only going to be more and more arms added.

From my experience, a lot of people get confused on how iterative attacks and natural attacks work together. I would take the time to ensure that the summoner is rolling the correct number of attacks and their bonuses. If he attacks with the long sword during a full attack, all natural attacks are considered secondary.


2) Unless the sorcerer is suffering from a curse or such, AC is unaffected by fighting without a weapon. As others have said, without proficiency he only receives -4 to attack if he/she attempts to make an unarmed attack. The sorcerer is also denied access to making Attacks of Opportunity and providing/receiving a flanking bonus due to not threatening any squares.