Zombie_Babies
First Post
I thought Firefly, BSG and even Charmed did a decent job. Thinking about it, though, none really were on the same plane as Buffy as far as this stuff is concerned.
Buffy's legacy
Dungeoneer
First Post
Veronica Mars is pretty kick-ass, though. I mean, she doesn't have superpowers, but if you get on her bad side she will break you. Granted, that show ended several years ago...
Zombie_Babies
First Post
Never seen it. I've heard of it but that's about it.
What about the Lana character in Archer? She's got flaws, sure, but she's also the most sane and competent character on the show.
sabrinathecat
Explorer
Maybe. I only watched the first couple episodes. Problem for me was suspension of disbelief. I have an easier time believing in vampires, demons, witches, and a super-powered teenager capable of killing them than I do believing the set-up for the Veronica Mars series being set in the real world.
Death's Daughter in The Hogfather was closer to Buffy-level posterior-booting and more plausible, even if her role wasn't that major.
Jester David
Hero
The author makes one pretty big mistake. Buffy wasn't the first tough, competent female protagonist in Prime Time TV.
When the show started in the mid-90s that was the thing. It started with Xena and we say a slew of Xena clones of varying degrees of quality. Queen of Swords. Alias. Cleopatra 2525. Dark Angel. Charmed. La Femme Nikita, Sheena.
The Spice Girls are often given some credit for the whole "Girl Power" thing of the mid-90s but I believe Xena came first.
Buffy just stands out as the one with the most lasting affect on pop culture, as well as one of the few that didn't quickly get cancelled. It also grew into more of an ensemble show, which is odd for a show named after the protagonist.
It might have actually hurt the creation of more shows with a central strong female character, by paving the way for more genre ensemble dramas.
--edit--
There were also a number of shows that opted to cast a woman as "the muscle" around the same time. Like Mutant X, JAG, V.I.P., Lost World. In these cases the woman was not the central character, but filled the role of butt kicker on the team.
Last edited:
Here are the dates IMDB gives...
La Femme Nikita (movie) was in 1990
Buffy the Vampire Slayer (movie) was 1992
Xena: Warrior Princess started in 1995
Buffy the Vampire Slayer came on TV in 1997
La Femme Nikita (TV Series) started in 1997
Charmed started in 1998
Cleopatra 2525 started in 2000
Dark Angel came on in 2000
Queen of Swords started in 2000
Alias came on in 2001
The only one of the TV series you mention that predates Buffy is Xena.
Jester David
Hero
Right.
Xena started things rolling. Xena was this cheap syndicated show, a spin-off of some other modestly successful show. And it suddenly became this huge cultural phenomenon and one of the most popular shows on television. So there were imitators. The ones I listed and likely a few others I can't recall. Networks clamoured for butt kicking women shows.
And the Fox turned to the creator of a semi-popular vampire movie with a memorable name and asked if he'd be willing to turn it into a TV show. And it became the one we remember.
Okay, I misunderstood. In your presentation, it sure looked like you were saying there was this slew of shows before Buffy, when in reality, there was just one.
There was Xena. A couple of execs then contemporaneously said, "Hey, that works! Let's take a movie as a basis (reliable IP!), and try to reproduce it." Both of those worked!
Then came a slew of others in the early 00s that didn't work so well. Which just goes to show that while badass female lead can be a good thing, it doesn't ensure a good thing.
Actually, Gail Berman was working for Sandollar Television at the time she went to Joss. It was only later, after Buffy was well on its way, that she became an exec for Fox - if was that success that got her the job at Fox.
It is an odd irony that the woman who made Buffy happen might also be blamed for killing Joss' later show, Firefly - it was her decision to put the show in the Friday night "death slot" and run the episodes out-of-order.
Zombie_Babies
First Post
Cleopatra 2525 was awesome. Epic theme music and laser blaster that had recoil! That's, like, one of my favorite tv things ever. Recoil from a laser blaster. Good times.
Jester David
Hero
There was likely others I can't even think of. Buffy was one of the first out of the gate, but it still followed the trail blazed by Xena. And some of the ones that followed Buffy were likely in the works before Buffy really aired.
Buffy was popular but it wasn't what it is now. It was a hit for the WB, but never their top show and was often overshadowed by Dawson's Creek and 7th Heaven (and, to a lesser extent, Charmed). It took a while before it really started getting mainstream attention. It was some time before there were "Buffy clones".
