Ginger-ism

Zombie_Babies · Jan 17, 2014

Morrus said:
Been that way since I was a child. Ginger jokes, not blond/e. Pronounced with hard Gs. The word "redhead" isn't used over hear; you're a ginger.

So in answer to your question of "when" - 40 years ago at least. Probably before.

And no, it's not the last acceptable discrimination. Weight, nationality, all these things are apparently acceptable things to be nasty to people about. We have a long way to go yet.

I don't think that joking and discrimination are on the same level. If I call someone a soulless abomination over drinks and in jest it's not quite the same as saying nothing in person but denying them a job over their hair color. At least not to me it isn't.

Raunalyn · Jan 17, 2014

The "gingers have no soul" thing gained notoriety, I think, because of South Park (at least as far as I know). But yes, it's not meant to be serious.

Bullgrit · Jan 17, 2014

Morrus said:
Weight, nationality, all these things are apparently acceptable things to be nasty to people about.

Are they generally/culturally acceptable as targets? There's a difference between nasty things existing, (like in YouTube comments), and them being acceptable, (like allowed on ENWorld, for example).

Take the joke image above. Replace "ginger" with "fat," or "Mexican" (in the U.S.), or "Irish" (in the U.K.).

But, really, thinking about it, I guess the thing that really makes me bring up this subject is how it's a discrimination that, in my experience/world, has only recently emerged. Of all the discriminations that existed in my world as I grew up, redheads weren't a thing. I knew lots of "dumb blonde" jokes, but never heard any gag about redheads, (other than the old "red-headed step child" thing).

I mean, there's hatred of Muslims now that didn't much exist before, (as it does now), until relatively recently. But we all know why that issue started. (Whether there's any logic/reality to the issue, doesn't matter. We know when it started and why.)

But redheads? What started that hatred recently?

Bullgrit

Dioltach · Jan 17, 2014

I'm doing my bit to prevent anti-gingerism: I married one.

Desdichado · Jan 17, 2014

billd91 said:
Nobody hates redheads? That's patently not true. There are far too many cases of bullying redheads for the color of their hair to say that.

Yes, yes, yes... in a population of hundreds of millions in the West, where redheads are more common than elsewhere, then of course you can find a handful of anecdotes of someone being bullied that had red hair and the bullies maybe even using the red hair as an excuse or justification or whatever.

I don't find those handful of anecdotes convincing as evidence of a larger societal trend, nor do I expect that they have any useful predictive factor with regards to the behavior of anyone.

Zombie_Babies · Jan 17, 2014

Bullgrit said:
Are they generally/culturally acceptable as targets? There's a difference between nasty things existing, (like in YouTube comments), and them being acceptable, (like allowed on ENWorld, for example).

Take the joke image above. Replace "ginger" with "fat," or "Mexican" (in the U.S.), or "Irish" (in the U.K.).

But, really, thinking about it, I guess the thing that really makes me bring up this subject is how it's a discrimination that, in my experience/world, has only recently emerged. Of all the discriminations that existed in my world as I grew up, redheads weren't a thing. I knew lots of "dumb blonde" jokes, but never heard any gag about redheads, (other than the old "red-headed step child" thing).

I mean, there's hatred of Muslims now that didn't much exist before, (as it does now), until relatively recently. But we all know why that issue started. (Whether there's any logic/reality to the issue, doesn't matter. We know when it started and why.)

But redheads? What started that hatred recently?

Bullgrit

Discrimination? Where? Again, jokes aren't discrimination. Saying a ginger has no soul is not the same thing as denying them a job because they're ginger or refusing to allow them to buy a house in your neighborhood because they've got red hair and freckles. Where are you getting this idea of discrimination from?

Seriously, do you honestly believe there's some great campaign of discrimination being waged against gingers? Why do you think so (if you do)? Do you have evidence? I'm honestly asking because this whole discrimination bit is new to me.

If they aren't actually being discriminated against I'd ask you to please stop saying they are. That does a disservice to people who really are discriminated against by cheapening the word. Everyone - every group of people imaginable - gets made fun of and has jokes told about them. That is absolutely, 100% not a form of discrimination. Discrimination implies actually denying someone something. That's not happening to gingers - at least not that I'm aware of.

Umbran · Jan 17, 2014

Zombie_Babies said:
Discrimination? Where? Again, jokes aren't discrimination.

Oh, they're discrimination. Very minor discrimination, I admit, but discrimination.

If you're singling out a group for special treatment, you're discriminating - for them if it is positive treatment, against them if it is negative treatment.

We can quibble over whether these jokes are discrimination on a level that we should be concerned about, in the grand scheme of things.

Personally, I figure that making a regular thing out of saying uncomplimentary stuff about groups of people probably isn't a great idea.

Morrus · Jan 17, 2014

Zombie_Babies said:
I don't think that joking and discrimination are on the same level. If I call someone a soulless abomination over drinks and in jest it's not quite the same as saying nothing in person but denying them a job over their hair color. At least not to me it isn't.

It's a matter of degree. Calling someone a racial epithet and denying them a job are on the same scale - one's just much further along that scale. Violence is even further, of course. Jokes about hair colour are about as low down the scale as you can get, I agree.

Morrus · Jan 17, 2014

Bullgrit said:
But redheads? What started that hatred recently?

Eh? It's not recent. I thought I just explained that!

Maybe it's recent right where you are right now, but that's a local thing. Just means it took a while to get to you. Like I said, it was the insult of choice when I was a kid.

Maybe the question you should be asking is "Why has this societal thing only just reached me?"

To that, I've no idea. But I assure you it's not recent.

Bullgrit · Jan 17, 2014

Dioltech said:
I'm doing my bit to prevent anti-gingerism: I married one.

Lucky man. I agree with Mustrum_Ridcully: I have a preference for redheads. Sadly, my wife won't dye her hair red because she doesn't want to seem copying one of her friends who has naturally red hair.

Bullgrit

Ginger-ism

Zombie_Babies

First Post

Raunalyn

Hero

Bullgrit

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Dioltach

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Desdichado

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Zombie_Babies

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Umbran

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Morrus

Well, that was fun

Morrus

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Bullgrit

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