Skyrim

My son got Skyrim for his birthday a few weeks ago, and I've been sort of watching him play a bit of it. I've heard about it and know something about it from just being around the Internet. I understand it's an open world game with dragons and such. But watching it, I'm not seeing the big excitement.

First off, it's ugly. Everything is shades of gray. Other than firey dragon breath, I haven't seen any color in this game. I'm not expecting WoW colors, but all and only gray?

I've seen him switch between his weapons. He's carrying about 6 big weapons. I thought games had gone beyond that, and most games used a more "realistic" load. I guess not?

He has 3300 gold, but hasn't bought a horse because it's expensive. But he didn't say how expensive. Does this game have D&D levels of inflation with gold?

I've seen him fighting giant spiders and some bandits. Otherwise he's just been walking and trying to find paths from one place to another. He's run from a couple of dragons, but not fought any. Granted, he's only level 7, so far, (though he has at least two characters he's splitting his time with).

So what's the big draw for this game. What's made it the sensation all the Internet buzz has made it seem like? It just seems kinda boring and bland. I *must* be missing something.

Bullgrit

First, what sort of TV or monitor are you watching this on? I admit the game uses subdued tones but there's certainly noticeable color there.

Second, the inventory allowed is certainly well out of bounds as far as anything approaching reality is concerned. It's something that's necessary, though, because certain elements of the game (crafting, for example) are resource heavy. Plus it's fun. You get to carry a bunch of different weapons to try out in different situations. That's kewl.

Third, I never really got into the sandbox aspect of it. I don't think anything got it even close to as right as UO did so everything that tries feels like a failure to me. The world is too big for that sandbox feel, IMO. There's just too much dead space to make it fun. That said, the questlines are all pretty awesome and the choices that are available within them are pretty cool, too. And you don't have to do any of them - and that's bleepin' awesome. I played the storylines that interested me and didn't bother with the rest. The assassin stuff was awesome, for example, so I spent a ton of time working on that. My stepson said the thief stuff was good, too, but it looked annoying to me so I didn't bother ... and it didn't matter that I chose not to do it. That's about the only way Skyrim does open world right but it does make a difference.

So yeah, I think you may see more stuff that's appealing if your son decides to play some of the more involved questlines. They're a lot of fun.

Bullgrit said:

I've seen him switch between his weapons. He's carrying about 6 big weapons. I thought games had gone beyond that, and most games used a more "realistic" load. I guess not?

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There is a point at which the amount you carry does stop you form running and using the map to get to places quickly

He has 3300 gold, but hasn't bought a horse because it's expensive. But he didn't say how expensive. Does this game have D&D levels of inflation with gold?

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Horses cost 1000 gold, but IMO aren't really worth it

I've seen him fighting giant spiders and some bandits. Otherwise he's just been walking and trying to find paths from one place to another. He's run from a couple of dragons, but not fought any. Granted, he's only level 7, so far, (though he has at least two characters he's splitting his time with).

So what's the big draw for this game. What's made it the sensation all the Internet buzz has made it seem like? It just seems kinda boring and bland. I *must* be missing something.

Bullgrit

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The part of the draw is the open world,and the fact that there's almost an unlimited number of things to do in the game and the whole dragon shout thing

Skyrim uses subdued color schemes, but it still looks good and the duller colors actually fit the overall tone of the game pretty well.

I'm not sure what games you've been playing that have led you to believe that most games only deal with realistic weight limits. Still, Skyrim does better than most by have a threshold where you can no longer run or fast travel and then another limit where you just can't carry anymore. But six weapons really is not outside the realm of belief. Actually their weight limits are a bit high, but their weapon weights are also way too high. Even in a strictly realistic game, a person could carry six weapons.

Most of the appeal is due to the open world sandbox style of play. Some people like it and some don't. I also like the leveling style of the game and I think the classless system and lack of ability scores was actually a big improvement over previous ES games.

I liked Oblivion more than Skyrim. More varied regions (by design).

Skyrim's nice. It's a big world. Get to wander around. Do stuff.

Elder Scrolls is the only FPS style D&D-like game around. Anything else is pretty much crap (ex. Two Worlds)

that's why Skyrim gets the cred it gets.

Pretty much every other RPG is a 3rd person affair, usually isometic view (top down-ish).

Bullgrit said:

My son got Skyrim for his birthday a few weeks ago, and I've been sort of watching him play a bit of it. I've heard about it and know something about it from just being around the Internet. I understand it's an open world game with dragons and such. But watching it, I'm not seeing the big excitement.

First off, it's ugly. Everything is shades of gray. Other than firey dragon breath, I haven't seen any color in this game. I'm not expecting WoW colors, but all and only gray?

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That's a criticism which could have been levelled at Morrowind, but I'm surprised to hear it of Skyrim. It's not exactly saturated colours, but it's got plenty of nicely-rendered towns and forests.

If you're speaking literally here, is your son by any chance playing a Khajiit (catfolk) or a spellcaster? There's a night-vision spell in the game, which Khajiit can use at-will as a racial ability, which greatly enhances vision at night, but does render it monochrome as a side-effect.

I've seen him switch between his weapons. He's carrying about 6 big weapons. I thought games had gone beyond that, and most games used a more "realistic" load. I guess not?

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Some do, lots don't. Skyrim is about on par with D&D here - you have a weight limit based upon your stamina, but within that limit you can stuff your bags full of looted weapons and suits of armour and not worry about it.

He has 3300 gold, but hasn't bought a horse because it's expensive. But he didn't say how expensive. Does this game have D&D levels of inflation with gold?

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Horses are a fair investment, and not really worth it. Between having decent on-foot movement rates and fast-travel options, a horse is often more trouble than it's worth.

The big investments in the game are houses. Depending upon where you buy, they go for anything from 5,000 to 20,000 gp, plus more to furnish. It's entirely possible that's what he's saving towards.

I've seen him fighting giant spiders and some bandits. Otherwise he's just been walking and trying to find paths from one place to another. He's run from a couple of dragons, but not fought any. Granted, he's only level 7, so far, (though he has at least two characters he's splitting his time with).

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At level 7 he's probably not yet ready to reliably take on dragons, though he'll have faced at least one successfully if he's seeing more. Some character builds are also more suited to dragon-combat than others - if he's heavy on melee, he may have to wait until he acquires some decent Shouts or a ranged sidekick before he tackles dragons head-on.

So what's the big draw for this game. What's made it the sensation all the Internet buzz has made it seem like? It just seems kinda boring and bland. I *must* be missing something.

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Well, first of all, is he enjoying it? Watching a game isn't always as interesting as playing it, and Skyrim supports a wide range of playing styles, which will appeal to different people.

Personally I've never got into the Elder Scrolls games' melee combat system, and never bother with melee weapons bigger than a dagger. But other players love the system, and will play warriors by preference.

There are several schools of magic which play out differently in game, options for stealth and subterfuge, and loads of different paths to follow through the game world - it's entirely possible to reach high levels and complete dozens of major storylines without touching the game's main plot.

It's generally been only a moderate draw for me - I don't tend to play it as obsessively as I have some games - but it's consistently moderate, and I've gone back to it several times over the couple of years I've owned it, always getting a couple of weeks' good, enjoyable play out of it.

I looked up some Skyrim images, and I see the game has plenty of color. But I've not seen anything but gray over my son's shoulder. No green vegetation, no colorful clothing. (I know the TV is fine.) Does Skyrim have seasons? Maybe it's just winter?

He's playing an orc and a "lizardman" (I know it's called something else, but I can't remember right now).

He said he wants to buy a house. He's currently using a bandit fort as his home base.

Most popular games, I can see the appeal, what's exciting by just watching them, even if they aren't necessarily to my taste. I mean, for instance, I haven't played CoD since MW2, but I can totally see the appeal of the most recent combat in space scene. But watching this game, I'm just not getting it, personally. I figure I'm just missing something obvious. The open/big world is definitely a thing that would interest me -- I like the idea vs. the narrow, linear plot line. But so far as I've seen -- granted, maybe 30 minutes of it in 10 minute pieces -- the big/open world is just a place to run around.

I'll continue watching, and maybe even play a bit. But first I've *got* to see some freakin' color.

Bullgrit

Bullgrit said:

I looked up some Skyrim images, and I see the game has plenty of color. But I've not seen anything but gray over my son's shoulder. No green vegetation, no colorful clothing. (I know the TV is fine.) Does Skyrim have seasons? Maybe it's just winter?

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Well, it does take place in a northern, Nordic region, so there is a lot of snow, ice, and grey rock, particularly in the northern portion of the map.

Head south, there's some pretty lush forested areas. There are also some colorful and brightly lit underground areas.

Though I haven't played in a while, I really enjoyed the exploration aspect of Skyrim. You can pursue all sorts of goals, follow the main questline or not, but you do have to be self-motivating.

Janx said:

Elder Scrolls is the only FPS style D&D-like game around. Anything else is pretty much crap (ex. Two Worlds)

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Umm. Gothic? Witcher? The DSA titles?
I never liked the Elder Scrolls approach, but then, I also don't like sandboxes in rpgs, either. Theoretically, it allows you to do whatever you want, unfortunately, there's absolutely nothing interesting to do unless you are following the (single) storyline, due to everything else being more or less randomized. No matter where you are, npcs keep telling you the same stuff and the same monsters are lurking everywhere, adjusting automatically to your power level. And it's even badly balanced due to allowing the player to make up their own race, spells, etc. Bleh. About it's only plus point is the graphics.

Some years ago, shortly after Oblivion came out, a friend tried to get me to play. He was so enthusiastic about it that I indulged him and played around for a few minutes, but I couldn't see what the fuss was. I couldn't easily make any character concept I wanted, and nords and Bretons simply didn't capture my imagination, and the biggest flaw, it could not give me what my P&P were giving me, and time is limited.

My persistent friend bought me Skyrim for Christmas in 2012 and I've been hooked ever since.

What caused the turn around? Well, not knowing anything about the game initially (having missed all the hype;- none of my colleagues at the time were gamers), meant there was a great deal of mystery in those first hours slinking around the countryside after escaping Helgen Keep. I really had no idea what to expect. And the world felt real and dangerous, and actually a little scary. The game had managed to peak my sense of wonder. All the flaws <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->@Jhaelen mentioned... well I was blessed to have been sheltered from much previous CRPG experience or from the opinions of jaded-hipster game critics, and you can't otherwise learn all those flaws without a good deal of exploring and testing first.

Obviously, since then, I've discovered many of the limitations of the game, (and of course, compared to P&P it has many), including all the ones that <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->@Jhaelen accurately points out (except, ahem, the contention that there is only one non-randomized storyline- there are many), and I've pushed all the buttons, tested all the clipping barriers et cetera, et cetera, but still enjoy playing because there are still many new things to discover. The game boasts the support of a very active and passionate modding community which can keep the game alive for years; My character has just returned from a jaunt to some modded land (Morrowind) to be reunited with her host of modded companions hat have kept her modded dwemer-ruins/fortress cozy in her absence. For example.

And I think I'm even more hooked then ever because I find the expansive world lore very compelling. The effort they've put into developing intriguing cultures both visually and in the books scattered throughout the world is simply amazing; Dwemer, Falmer, Daedra... Each has their own unique story, feel and visually rendered architectural styles.

So while typical game limitations are all obvious and known to me now, it's still great for me because of the story. Like a great paperback, I'm just driven by the desire to see what happens next. But with the added benefit of button mashings that incidently manage a cool kill-move from time to time.

I've now played through all five of the games, and though the first two were a labour of love, I've really enjoyed the other three (graphics overhaul somewhat saved morrowind), and I really hope they eventually make a VI. As for ES Online, I'm a bit apprehensive; it sounds grand, but.... I've never played a MMO and I've seen those jackasses in the internet cafe's swearing and yelling with their squeaky little voices, and I think to myself; "I'd be spending my quality time with folks like these???" Kind of off-putting...

anyway, <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->@Bullgrit<!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->, as you kinda asked, I don't know that I could sell it to you, mainly because I have (and still kinda do) ask the same kind of questions of it. And I know that whenever something is talked up, it increases the chance it will be a disappointment. But are you thinking of having a go?