Quickleaf
Legend
What began as me brainstorming house rules for 4e among friends, continued with some forum discussions, and is emerging into...something else.
I have been inspired by 4e, BD&D, True20, Iron Heroes, Star Wars SAGA, Dungeon World, The One Ring, Radiance, and probably other systems I'm forgetting... I don't want to call it a new d20 RPG yet, but that may be the direction I'm headed. Right now it's more a collection of ideas, glorified house rules yearning to become their own system.
Anyhow, I call it Elderblade.
If I were to sum it up in a sentence: Elderblade is a fantasy RPG/house rules that encourages, challenges, and rewards player creativity.
And if I were speaking to a hardcore gamer: Elderblade is an "old school meets new school" rules-lighter action-intense flat-math d20 RPG/house rules... that encourages, challenges, and rewards player creativity.
Here's the original post where I promulgated some ideas (which may or may not pan out): http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?351895-D-amp-D-4-5E-(Not-Essentials)/page13
[sblock]
I'm going to basically brainstorm a new d20 game inspired a lot by 4e but some other games as well (BD&D, True20, Star Wars SAGA, DungeonWorld)...it's interesting, but it is long, so you've been warned!
Instead I would design a ruleset that focuses on improvisation and player creativity, using lessons learned from 4e (hell, it could even be compatible with 4e, so you could use 4e monsters!) without seeking to replicate 4e. While a good DM and highly invested players *can* do an improv style game in 4e, the system really isn't encouraging, challenging, and rewarding creativity. Instead it encourages knowing the rules and building a strong character with those rules...I mean you have so so many powers that often have very subtle to no differences.
What I would do is make a streamlined version of the system with zone-based combat (like Old School Hack) and minis both supported...
First off, initiative would be simultaneous for three main reasons:
I would incorporate a system of upshots & complications. Any success, whether on a skill check, ability check, attack roll, initiative check, or something else...any success by 5+ would earn you an upshot (kind of like True20's challenges) while any failure by 5+ would earn you a complication (hard coding the "fail by 5+" of some skills into the entire system. Every skill and many abilities would provide example upshots/complications to inspire you.
A missed attack would never mean "you miss, next." Instead a player would choose from several missed attack options:
Conditions and powers with durations would have a bit less game-speak in them (e.g. Until the end of the target's next turn, or Save ends) and would lean more toward narrative-based durations. For example, a barbarian's rage could last "until the barbarian spends a round without attacking anything." This makes rage more interesting. The player is going to be constantly seeking out enemies to maximize their rage time, and at the same time the player will dislike enemies that impose conditions which would hamper the barbarian from their murder spree. And it makes sense, and might even lead to some fun roleplaying: "Cleegor, the fights over! Don't hit me!" "Grr! Cleegor sense more goblins coming...must smash!"
Modifiers would happen away from the table during character creation/monster building, and would be very very rare in play. Instead an advantage/disadvantage system could be used. This could either be a non-stacking +5/-5 or it could steal from D&D Next (or really from 4e where the idea began...or perhaps 3e but I can't recall).
Player defined character keywords would be part of character creation. When leveraged they can gain you advantage, but GM may call upon them to impose disadvantage, all depending on the situation. Keywords overall would play a more prominent role than in 4e.
Streamlined action economy: Eliminating minor actions & reintroducing full-round actions & consolidating opportunities & immediate actions/interrupts into reactions. Also reduce the number of reaction-granting powers.
For creating a condition track (to consolidate several of 4e's conditions) it would look to Star Wars SAGA and True20.
Social skills would use a Rich Burlew Diplomacy approach, where the difficulty range is set by the GM but the actual DC is determined by the Player's creative approach to negotiating with the NPC. So it's not mainly about being a great thespian, it's not mainly about having Diplomacy +30, it IS mainly about thinking about your approach and being creative.
Investigative skills would use a Dungeon World-esque "list of pointed/leading questions" you can ask. Maybe the check DC you meet determines how many questions you get.
Speaking of skills, I think every skill should also have a trained only use (like detect magic for Arcana). For example, any PC can use Streetwise to check the tavern for rumors, but a PC trained in Streetwise can actually seed new rumors. Or any PC can use Heal to perform first aid (which would be a full-round action), but a PC trained in Heal can perform (magical medieval/renaissance-era) Surgery & Forensics.
Action points and healing surges would be merged into hero points. Every PC would start with 6, though that might increase at each tier. Like True20 provided a list of uses for "Conviction", each of the three main class archetypes (Expert, Warrior, Spellcaster) would have their own stunt lists for using hero points. There would be some overlap (Extra Action and Second Wind for example). Second Wind, btw, would be a free action and limited only by your remaining hero points. However, you wouldn't be able to use it when "bloodied" unless you were a Warrior.
Recovery of powers, hit points, and hero points would be slow unless the PCs were at a sanctuary. Differ sanctuaries could provide different recovery options/levels.
Thed be a unified progression table like in 4e. Every class would have sub-classes with clear identity, as well as paragons paths with strong narrative identity. Attack powers would be grouped by tier and when you have the option of gaining a new attack power you could instead folllow the upgrade track of an attack power you already know. Thus, there'd be less attack powers needed.
For basic attacks, I know the martial classes would all be: "Make a basic attack and...(insert something awesome)." Eliminating the need for a lot of power details. I'm thinking choose 2 basic attacks from a list of 5-6 should be sufficient. Could make the fewer basic attacks more versatile and perhaps introduce more combat maneuvers like Hamper, Lock Blades, Trip, etc.
For utility powers, they would instead include more passive features and less powers (especially for non-spellcasters), and would also be grouped by tier. So you'd have... ROGUE HEROIC FEATURES: choose one at 2nd level, 6th level, and 10th level. Then ROGUE PARAGON FEATURES...and so on. Also, the utility powers would be mostly non-combat abilities with some kind of meaning to the narrative (e.g. my barbarian / ranger knows how to make Animal Calls that allow him to relay simple messages to allies while hidden and scouting without giving away his position! Awesome!).
Races would also get what 4e never quite delivered on...a list of racial features you choose from as you advance...I'm thinking once per tier is about right. These would be classic identifying characteristics/traits, so for humans you might choose from: Ambition (exploiting the upshot/complication system), Dual-Classing, Heroism (bundling all those human action point feats), Adaptive Learning (letting you pick a new power/featu in the field), Perseverance (some combo of when you have no hero points/ when an ally goes down/ whe. You fail a death save/ when you fail by 5+ effects), Shrewdness (ask extra questions on a History/Insight check that have to do with power & risk), Versatility (take an extra Basic Attack from your class or a feat...this would basically be a repeat of a core human race feature).
Classes would be divided into 3 Archetypes, each archetype would share common hero point Stunt List, have access to common feats, and choose from same pool of Paragon Paths (though some might be class-restricted). Multi-classing under this system would be much easier too. As far as which classes and sub-classes, I would go with this layout:
EXPERTS
Assassin - Holy Slayer, Poisoner, Shadow
Bard - Minstrel, Skald, Trickster
Monk - Iron Fist, something, Good Friar (because a Western "Friar Tuck" staff wielded option is needed for games lacking Asian awesomeness)
Rogue - Investigator, Scoundrel, Spy, Swashbuckler, Thief, Treasure Hunter (that should cover a good spread of rogue concepts, though it could go on forever!)
WARRIORS
Barbarian - Berserker, Horsemasher, and kill the Warden and take his stuff to inspire a 3rd build
Fighter - Archer, Defender, Duelist Man-at-Arms, Slayer, and the Warlord
Paladin - Cavalier, Blackguard, and the Avenger (see, more killing classes and taking their stuff!)
Ranger - Beastmaster, Hunter, Scout
SPELLCASTERS
Cleric - (using D&DNext god names as placeholders) Lifegiver, Lightbringer, Protector, Reaper, Stormcaller, Warbringer
Druid - Ritualistic, Shapeshifter, Summoner
Warlock - Cthulu Pact, Fey Pact, Infernal Pact, Grimdark Pact
Wizard - Arcanist, Evoker, Enchanter, Illusionist, Necromancer, Wild Mage
Notice that the Big 4 classes get more sub-class options since they've got the most history and thus the most diversity in D&D books. I chose to cut Sorcerer because there are strong improvisation options for all spellcasters that sort of make that class as conceived in 3e superfluous, and the Evoker sub-class basically gets similar features to the 4e Sorcerer.
Now, something like an Artificer or the 4e Vampire class is missing from this list, but those were later options that aren't critical to the game.
Feats -overhauled! Feats would be fewer in number, you'd get less of them, and they'd get a big power up. However, I'd aggressively strip out feats which just inflate numbers - those sorts of things would be core class features or just cut out entirely.
Skill Challenges -overhauled! Skill challengrs would get a complete overhaul inspired by Star Wars SAGA and, well, a blend of my experience, lots of Internet advice, and borrowed ideas from indie games like Fiasco, Dungeon World, and Gumshoe. They would be about interesting choices testing creativity instead of skill checks. The would be similar rules basis and then templates to make The Heist, The Chase, The Investiation, The Infiltration, The Travel Montage, etc.
Magic Items would be optional and wondrous without inflating core math.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-
That would be the starting point I'd work from, something rules-lighter, with fun character building options, yet firmly all about encouraging, challenging, and rewarding player creativity (as opposed to player skill or character skill). I'm still debating if I'd go the flat math route, though that would of course make it completely incompatible with 4e. But something like that I could see working under the d20 SRD. I don't know how popular it would ever be, but it certainly hints at a game I'd love to play!
[/sblock]
The underlying setting concept is a gritty world of high fantasy with political intrigue and magic that has a price; it's a world where evil and good exist but are muddied by shifting alliegances, mortals who are mostly "unaligned", and the lack of a consolidated evil or good front.
The underlying mechanic is to encourage, challenge, and reward creativity (as opposed to player skill or character-building).
So... I'll start with the first rule that melds these two ideas: the Rule of 5.
Whenever you roll a d20 for a check, attack, or defense (players roll defense in this system instead of monsters rolling attack), this you succeed by 5+ the player chooses an upshot, but if you fail by 5+ the GM chooses a complication.
What's an upshot and a complication? Basically something extra good or extra bad, from the player's perspective.
Sample upshots:
While some of these could be used in combat, there's a whole slew of special combat upshots...
Attack upshots:
Defense upshots:
And then each skill in the game has a bunch of unique upshots! Let's look at Streetwise, which is the 4e version of 3e's Gather Information which is the 2e version of "we go to the tavern" and the 1e version of "there's a temple of elemental evil, do you need to know anything else?"
As a disclaimer: Streetwise in this system can be used for several things besides gathering info. It can also be used to seed rumors (so there's rules backing up the bard player when he says "I besmirch the Duke's name vociferously!") and - if you're trained - to hide in a populace while authorities look for you.
Streetwise upshots:
I'm going to stop there, but you can imagine there are complications that invert several of these general upshots, attack / defense upshots, and skill upshots.
I have been inspired by 4e, BD&D, True20, Iron Heroes, Star Wars SAGA, Dungeon World, The One Ring, Radiance, and probably other systems I'm forgetting... I don't want to call it a new d20 RPG yet, but that may be the direction I'm headed. Right now it's more a collection of ideas, glorified house rules yearning to become their own system.
Anyhow, I call it Elderblade.
If I were to sum it up in a sentence: Elderblade is a fantasy RPG/house rules that encourages, challenges, and rewards player creativity.
And if I were speaking to a hardcore gamer: Elderblade is an "old school meets new school" rules-lighter action-intense flat-math d20 RPG/house rules... that encourages, challenges, and rewards player creativity.
Here's the original post where I promulgated some ideas (which may or may not pan out): http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?351895-D-amp-D-4-5E-(Not-Essentials)/page13
[sblock]
I'm going to basically brainstorm a new d20 game inspired a lot by 4e but some other games as well (BD&D, True20, Star Wars SAGA, DungeonWorld)...it's interesting, but it is long, so you've been warned!
Instead I would design a ruleset that focuses on improvisation and player creativity, using lessons learned from 4e (hell, it could even be compatible with 4e, so you could use 4e monsters!) without seeking to replicate 4e. While a good DM and highly invested players *can* do an improv style game in 4e, the system really isn't encouraging, challenging, and rewarding creativity. Instead it encourages knowing the rules and building a strong character with those rules...I mean you have so so many powers that often have very subtle to no differences.
What I would do is make a streamlined version of the system with zone-based combat (like Old School Hack) and minis both supported...
First off, initiative would be simultaneous for three main reasons:
- First, it encourages players to talk ahead of time about creative strategies/tactics especially since they matter a bit more (since the dying Orc can still stab you!), and since players can coordinate and take turns amongst themselves as they please without worrying about where a Held Action puts them in the initiative count. It also makes ranged attacks a bigger part of gameplay compared to 4e which often is melee-focused.
- Second, it reduces alpha-striking with an inflated initiative score and makes Surprise more important. I'd also be building several options you can choose when you gain Surprise to make it a bigger part of gameplay.
- Third, no more tracking initiative! When you need to find our who goes first or a PC and monster are clearly trying to go before each other there can be an contested initiative check between the two or three or whatever.
I would incorporate a system of upshots & complications. Any success, whether on a skill check, ability check, attack roll, initiative check, or something else...any success by 5+ would earn you an upshot (kind of like True20's challenges) while any failure by 5+ would earn you a complication (hard coding the "fail by 5+" of some skills into the entire system. Every skill and many abilities would provide example upshots/complications to inspire you.
A missed attack would never mean "you miss, next." Instead a player would choose from several missed attack options:
- study foe or situation and learn something.
- gain advantage and +1 die damage against same enemy on an attack next round as you wait for their guard to drop, keep battering their shield, or just get more determined to kill them.
- reposition within your current zone.
Conditions and powers with durations would have a bit less game-speak in them (e.g. Until the end of the target's next turn, or Save ends) and would lean more toward narrative-based durations. For example, a barbarian's rage could last "until the barbarian spends a round without attacking anything." This makes rage more interesting. The player is going to be constantly seeking out enemies to maximize their rage time, and at the same time the player will dislike enemies that impose conditions which would hamper the barbarian from their murder spree. And it makes sense, and might even lead to some fun roleplaying: "Cleegor, the fights over! Don't hit me!" "Grr! Cleegor sense more goblins coming...must smash!"
Modifiers would happen away from the table during character creation/monster building, and would be very very rare in play. Instead an advantage/disadvantage system could be used. This could either be a non-stacking +5/-5 or it could steal from D&D Next (or really from 4e where the idea began...or perhaps 3e but I can't recall).
Player defined character keywords would be part of character creation. When leveraged they can gain you advantage, but GM may call upon them to impose disadvantage, all depending on the situation. Keywords overall would play a more prominent role than in 4e.
Streamlined action economy: Eliminating minor actions & reintroducing full-round actions & consolidating opportunities & immediate actions/interrupts into reactions. Also reduce the number of reaction-granting powers.
For creating a condition track (to consolidate several of 4e's conditions) it would look to Star Wars SAGA and True20.
Social skills would use a Rich Burlew Diplomacy approach, where the difficulty range is set by the GM but the actual DC is determined by the Player's creative approach to negotiating with the NPC. So it's not mainly about being a great thespian, it's not mainly about having Diplomacy +30, it IS mainly about thinking about your approach and being creative.
Investigative skills would use a Dungeon World-esque "list of pointed/leading questions" you can ask. Maybe the check DC you meet determines how many questions you get.
Speaking of skills, I think every skill should also have a trained only use (like detect magic for Arcana). For example, any PC can use Streetwise to check the tavern for rumors, but a PC trained in Streetwise can actually seed new rumors. Or any PC can use Heal to perform first aid (which would be a full-round action), but a PC trained in Heal can perform (magical medieval/renaissance-era) Surgery & Forensics.
Action points and healing surges would be merged into hero points. Every PC would start with 6, though that might increase at each tier. Like True20 provided a list of uses for "Conviction", each of the three main class archetypes (Expert, Warrior, Spellcaster) would have their own stunt lists for using hero points. There would be some overlap (Extra Action and Second Wind for example). Second Wind, btw, would be a free action and limited only by your remaining hero points. However, you wouldn't be able to use it when "bloodied" unless you were a Warrior.
Recovery of powers, hit points, and hero points would be slow unless the PCs were at a sanctuary. Differ sanctuaries could provide different recovery options/levels.
Thed be a unified progression table like in 4e. Every class would have sub-classes with clear identity, as well as paragons paths with strong narrative identity. Attack powers would be grouped by tier and when you have the option of gaining a new attack power you could instead folllow the upgrade track of an attack power you already know. Thus, there'd be less attack powers needed.
For basic attacks, I know the martial classes would all be: "Make a basic attack and...(insert something awesome)." Eliminating the need for a lot of power details. I'm thinking choose 2 basic attacks from a list of 5-6 should be sufficient. Could make the fewer basic attacks more versatile and perhaps introduce more combat maneuvers like Hamper, Lock Blades, Trip, etc.
For utility powers, they would instead include more passive features and less powers (especially for non-spellcasters), and would also be grouped by tier. So you'd have... ROGUE HEROIC FEATURES: choose one at 2nd level, 6th level, and 10th level. Then ROGUE PARAGON FEATURES...and so on. Also, the utility powers would be mostly non-combat abilities with some kind of meaning to the narrative (e.g. my barbarian / ranger knows how to make Animal Calls that allow him to relay simple messages to allies while hidden and scouting without giving away his position! Awesome!).
Races would also get what 4e never quite delivered on...a list of racial features you choose from as you advance...I'm thinking once per tier is about right. These would be classic identifying characteristics/traits, so for humans you might choose from: Ambition (exploiting the upshot/complication system), Dual-Classing, Heroism (bundling all those human action point feats), Adaptive Learning (letting you pick a new power/featu in the field), Perseverance (some combo of when you have no hero points/ when an ally goes down/ whe. You fail a death save/ when you fail by 5+ effects), Shrewdness (ask extra questions on a History/Insight check that have to do with power & risk), Versatility (take an extra Basic Attack from your class or a feat...this would basically be a repeat of a core human race feature).
Classes would be divided into 3 Archetypes, each archetype would share common hero point Stunt List, have access to common feats, and choose from same pool of Paragon Paths (though some might be class-restricted). Multi-classing under this system would be much easier too. As far as which classes and sub-classes, I would go with this layout:
EXPERTS
Assassin - Holy Slayer, Poisoner, Shadow
Bard - Minstrel, Skald, Trickster
Monk - Iron Fist, something, Good Friar (because a Western "Friar Tuck" staff wielded option is needed for games lacking Asian awesomeness)
Rogue - Investigator, Scoundrel, Spy, Swashbuckler, Thief, Treasure Hunter (that should cover a good spread of rogue concepts, though it could go on forever!)
WARRIORS
Barbarian - Berserker, Horsemasher, and kill the Warden and take his stuff to inspire a 3rd build
Fighter - Archer, Defender, Duelist Man-at-Arms, Slayer, and the Warlord
Paladin - Cavalier, Blackguard, and the Avenger (see, more killing classes and taking their stuff!)
Ranger - Beastmaster, Hunter, Scout
SPELLCASTERS
Cleric - (using D&DNext god names as placeholders) Lifegiver, Lightbringer, Protector, Reaper, Stormcaller, Warbringer
Druid - Ritualistic, Shapeshifter, Summoner
Warlock - Cthulu Pact, Fey Pact, Infernal Pact, Grimdark Pact
Wizard - Arcanist, Evoker, Enchanter, Illusionist, Necromancer, Wild Mage
Notice that the Big 4 classes get more sub-class options since they've got the most history and thus the most diversity in D&D books. I chose to cut Sorcerer because there are strong improvisation options for all spellcasters that sort of make that class as conceived in 3e superfluous, and the Evoker sub-class basically gets similar features to the 4e Sorcerer.
Now, something like an Artificer or the 4e Vampire class is missing from this list, but those were later options that aren't critical to the game.
Feats -overhauled! Feats would be fewer in number, you'd get less of them, and they'd get a big power up. However, I'd aggressively strip out feats which just inflate numbers - those sorts of things would be core class features or just cut out entirely.
Skill Challenges -overhauled! Skill challengrs would get a complete overhaul inspired by Star Wars SAGA and, well, a blend of my experience, lots of Internet advice, and borrowed ideas from indie games like Fiasco, Dungeon World, and Gumshoe. They would be about interesting choices testing creativity instead of skill checks. The would be similar rules basis and then templates to make The Heist, The Chase, The Investiation, The Infiltration, The Travel Montage, etc.
Magic Items would be optional and wondrous without inflating core math.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-
That would be the starting point I'd work from, something rules-lighter, with fun character building options, yet firmly all about encouraging, challenging, and rewarding player creativity (as opposed to player skill or character skill). I'm still debating if I'd go the flat math route, though that would of course make it completely incompatible with 4e. But something like that I could see working under the d20 SRD. I don't know how popular it would ever be, but it certainly hints at a game I'd love to play!
[/sblock]
The underlying setting concept is a gritty world of high fantasy with political intrigue and magic that has a price; it's a world where evil and good exist but are muddied by shifting alliegances, mortals who are mostly "unaligned", and the lack of a consolidated evil or good front.
The underlying mechanic is to encourage, challenge, and reward creativity (as opposed to player skill or character-building).
So... I'll start with the first rule that melds these two ideas: the Rule of 5.
Whenever you roll a d20 for a check, attack, or defense (players roll defense in this system instead of monsters rolling attack), this you succeed by 5+ the player chooses an upshot, but if you fail by 5+ the GM chooses a complication.
What's an upshot and a complication? Basically something extra good or extra bad, from the player's perspective.
Sample upshots:
- You learn something about the situation or creature: ask an extra question.
- You aid an ally attempting the same roll.
- You perform the task faster than expected, gaining advantage (+5) on initiative or reducing the action required one step (full-round to standard, standard to move, move to free). Longer actions like rituals require 25% less time.
- You reposition within your current zone.
- You perform two actions simultaneously.
While some of these could be used in combat, there's a whole slew of special combat upshots...
Attack upshots:
- You hit the monster in a specific spot.
- You wound the monster in a specific spot, so that subsequent attacks to that specific spot deal +1 damage die.
- Gain advantage (+5) on defense against the monster's next attack.
- Deal damage to the monster first, winning initiative (which is normally simultaneous)
- Any overkill damage against monster can be applied to another monster. May require an attack roll to hit for balance, not sure.
- Reposition within your current zone.
Defense upshots:
- Gain advantage (+5) on your next attack against the monster.
- Initiate a combat maneuver against the monster.
- Negate any damage on a miss/near-miss.
- Disengage from the monster safely.
And then each skill in the game has a bunch of unique upshots! Let's look at Streetwise, which is the 4e version of 3e's Gather Information which is the 2e version of "we go to the tavern" and the 1e version of "there's a temple of elemental evil, do you need to know anything else?"
As a disclaimer: Streetwise in this system can be used for several things besides gathering info. It can also be used to seed rumors (so there's rules backing up the bard player when he says "I besmirch the Duke's name vociferously!") and - if you're trained - to hide in a populace while authorities look for you.
Streetwise upshots:
- Gather rumors about a distant town or city (requires being in a port or capital).
- Keep your asking around quiet so no one catches wind what you're up to.
- Deliberately attract attention without it seeming like you're setting up an obvious trap.
- When seeding rumors, make them especially pervasive to sway popular opinion.
- When seeding rumors, do so anonymously or under a nome de plume.
- When hiding among the populace, do so without endangering your hosts.
- When you're hiding among the populace, get a guaranteed safe house and person you can 100% trust for now.
I'm going to stop there, but you can imagine there are complications that invert several of these general upshots, attack / defense upshots, and skill upshots.
Last edited:
