(In WWF Voice) Let's Get Ready to Fumble!

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the fascination with fumbles.

Probabilistically speaking, this whole "1 is a fumble" thing means that, every time I try something, there is a 5% chance that I am going to completely and utterly screw it up. This does not jive with my real-world experiences.

Not only that, but the concept of fumbles completely and utterly screws with the notion of how competent these people are. A first-level character has almost always been presented as a cut above the rest, yes? Why is it, then, that he has the same chance of making a complete idiot out of himself, that some normal plebe has?

And that just gets worse as the character levels. Twentieth-level fighter, fighting with Vecna - oops, rolled a 1! I just tossed my sword over there, like some kind of bumbling idiot. If something happens in a game of D&D that someone starts playing this, then there is something fundamentally wrong going on.

Other systems mitigate the screw-up problems easily or at least let them happen a lot less. But then, fumbling has caused the funniest and most interesting scenes at our table. Basically it's entertainment (for some) for a special price.

GnomeWorks said:

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the fascination with fumbles.

Probabilistically speaking, this whole "1 is a fumble" thing means that, every time I try something, there is a 5% chance that I am going to completely and utterly screw it up. This does not jive with my real-world experiences.

Not only that, but the concept of fumbles completely and utterly screws with the notion of how competent these people are. A first-level character has almost always been presented as a cut above the rest, yes? Why is it, then, that he has the same chance of making a complete idiot out of himself, that some normal plebe has?

And that just gets worse as the character levels. Twentieth-level fighter, fighting with Vecna - oops, rolled a 1! I just tossed my sword over there, like some kind of bumbling idiot. If something happens in a game of D&D that someone starts playing this, then there is something fundamentally wrong going on.

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Mr. Murphy strikes high and low. The greatest warriors make mistakes, and often.
Fumbles are not always the fault of the PC who rolls the 1. An enemy can bump into your 20th level fighter, and cause him to fumble. The fumble represents the random chaos in a battle.

ren1999 said:

Modular Optional Rules for 5E.

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ren1999,

While a thread now and again concerning an option is okay in the D&D and Pathfinder Forum, if you're going to make a habit out of them, please put them in our House Rules forum: http://www.enworld.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?7-House-Rules-Homebrews-amp-Conversion-Library

Thanks!

ren1999 said:

Mr. Murphy strikes high and low. The greatest warriors make mistakes, and often.

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Really? Because I'd be under the impression that great warriors got that way by not screwing up, because most of the times, in combat, screwing up = death.

Fumbles are not always the fault of the PC who rolls the 1. An enemy can bump into your 20th level fighter, and cause him to fumble. The fumble represents the random chaos in a battle.

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So... let me get this straight.

The 20th-level wizard is over there, bending reality to his whim and basically just doing whatever he feels like, because: magic.

Meanwhile, some guy bumps into a 20th-level fighter, and he throws his sword instead of using it to chop that guy in half.

Pardon me for not taking that argument seriously.

First of all these are all optional homebrew rules that people are posting to ADD to your game. If you feel it would detract from it, then um...duh don't use it. Personally I think the idea of a crit fail causing some sort of negative affect is cool in theory but not in practice. I believe you do not need a table full of miss haps to create a comedic effect. I do however enjoy the idea of blood and guts becoming a hazard area for people to slip on. Keep these home brew rules coming, I can always take a little something from each them.

DiceyDM said:

First of all these are all optional homebrew rules that people are posting to ADD to your game. If you feel it would detract from it, then um...duh don't use it. Personally I think the idea of a crit fail causing some sort of negative affect is cool in theory but not in practice. I believe you do not need a table full of miss haps to create a comedic effect. I do however enjoy the idea of blood and guts becoming a hazard area for people to slip on. Keep these home brew rules coming, I can always take a little something from each them.

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So we cannot criticize homebrew material simply because it is optional? If you put it out here for people to look at you are inviting debate and criticism. I doubt very much that anyone here would use these rules at their table, but that doesn't disallow them from speaking their mind about the idea up and including describing why they think it isn't any good.

n00bdragon said:

So we cannot criticize homebrew material simply because it is optional? If you put it out here for people to look at you are inviting debate and criticism. I doubt very much that anyone here would use these rules at their table...

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You're right. I won't use these rules at my table.

Why?

Because we already have a fumble system that has served us well since about the end of the last ice age.

How it works, in brief:
If you are rolling to hit (this includes all aimed spells, and in our system most of them are) and roll a 1*, you then roll a d6. If it also comes up 1 then you've fumbled, this means you'll fumble less than 1% of the time. You then roll d% against a DM's chart to find out what you've done to yourself and-or your friends and-or your weapon.
For weapons and-or melee combat, some of the more common options are: minor damage to self or an ally; weapon dropped; weapon thrown; lose footing and give your foe a free shot at you; damage or break weapon (magic ones get a save), and so forth...and there's some real nasty stuff sprinkled in there as well but nowhere near as common. With spells it's far more likely you just blew your aim so badly you hit your friends (or yourself) instead of your foes, or didn't cast properly and instead generated a wild surge, etc.

* - if your natural roll is higher than 1 but is brought down to or below 1 by whatever means (e.g. shooting into melee; being under a Bane effect, or whatever) there's a lesser-fumble table with the nasty stuff stripped out you roll on if your d6 comes up 1.

Also, a fumble always wipes out the rest of your actions (if any) for the round.

Lanefan

I love good fumble rules. I have them in my Nexus D20 system.
I don't have a problem with the percentage change for even skilled people to mess up in combat. If you are not under stress then you don't need to roll to accomplish a normal action for your character's skill level. People who are practicing with their weapons on a range are not under stress. You will do an average job for your skill. Once you are under stress, things get dicey (see what I did there!).
For an example I direct you to the show Top Shot. These are people that have an Olympic level of skill with ranged weapons and they made hilarious mistakes! They even said that 90% of the shots they fired to get this good were under no stress. Even people in combat said that they were not trying to make a specific shot (unless they were snipers) most of the time. They were trying to get the enemy to duck back and they were shotting in a general direction.
SO I don't think that 5% is that bad if you consider it is not 5% of all the shots you fired but 5% of all the shots you fired under stress.
Even if we think of movies we remember the times that the heroes screw up better then the dozen times they shoot someone successfully. It is more entertaining.

ren1999 said:

Modular Optional Rules for 5E.

Fumble,
You roll a 1 and don't have the luck of the Lightfoot Halfling.
Fumble Table

Roll a 1d8

1 your weapon breaks, if your target has a magical weapon of equal or higher value, your magical weapon breaks,

2 you break your hand and now do half-damage with that hand for the encounter duration

3 roll normal damage on your enemy, but your weapon becomes stuck in the enemy, roll a strength or dex check to remove

4 you hit your ally, you fool! roll normal damage on your ally

5 you injure yourself, roll 1d4

6 club footed novice! you and all adjacent allies and enemies fall prone

7 you drop your weapon 5 feet, you must take 1 action to ready it again

8 you lose any remaining actions and reactions until your next turn

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Gak no. I can do without Keystone Cops Combat.

Borrow the 4e Dark Sun fumble trigger. When you roll a natural 1 you may then reroll the dice. If you do not reroll you miss. If you reroll then if you hit you hit, if you miss you fumble. This means that fumbling is a consequence of taking risks and going for that extra opportunity. If you're fighting conservatively you never fumble. And the cause of the fumble is player choice rather than just luck. The player took the risk. (It also means that highly skilled fighters don't suddenly become the people most likely to fumble).