Can you separate an author from his or her work?

Mallus said:

Serious question: do you subscribe to any media streaming/rental services, ie Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Instant, Spotify, etc.?

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No, I don't.

Ender's Game is on Netflix. So are a lot of Roman Polanski films. I don't even want to countenance the sins of musicians. So in some small diffuse way, everyone who subscribes to these services provides financial support to artists who have espoused terrible views and/or committed and been convicted of heinous crimes.

Are you willing to carry your position that far? If not, why?

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It's probably been over 10 years since I paid for music.
As for companies that carry products from people I have chosen not to support, it's a bit different. It's not Orson Scott Card's home shopping network. It's amazon or Netflix or whatever. I buy things off of Amazon. I chose what I buy if I find that a company I buy from is doing something as reprehensible as Mr Card, I stop buying from them. If amazon came out in support of me Card, I'd stop buying from that site.

Overall, this is a tough one to deal with.

Ultimately, it comes down to one major question - does being a criminal, having beliefs I find problematic, or otherwise being what I think of as a reprehensible person mean that the individual cannot also do or make something of value? Do we expunge what things of value they may bring into being, for sake of the harm they did? Or, worse, what if we cannot actually demonstrate that they've actually done harm to anyone?

There is an old saying - do not throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are bad things in the world, yes, and we need to get rid of them. But, in a world with a paucity of good things, can we really afford to throw out that which is useful and constructive?

This goes rather strongly with things like the Ender's Game movie. He was apparently paid a one-time fee for the option, and doesn't share in profits. So, boycotting the movie doesn't directly hurt Card, personally. And then, we note that beyond his original text, Card's involvement in the production was minimal - the script isn't his. Meanwhile hundreds of other people were very much involved - actors, costumers, makeup artists, hairdressers, special effects people, and so on. I daresay that a great many of them are in groups Card now espouses hate for. Do we throw out all their work, just to spite Card? Is that right?

There are folks out there who would cut from history anyone of whom they don't approve. How do I keep the moral high ground if I do the same?

MasqueradingVampire said:

I feel like your questions are a little leading. Admiral Ackbar's voice is sounding an alarm. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

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Short answer: you are wrong, but I admit I'm being unusually a) laconic and b) interrogatory today, because I'm busy at work (but still want to participate in this thread because it's interesting).

The only control consumers have is what they choose to spend their money on.

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Right. "How to be an ethical consumer?" is an important question. My wife and I think about it a lot. It's also a terrifically complicated question in a contemporary consumer economy. I don't have a good answer for how to do it (merely the answers I'm using for now). Which is why I asked you questions. I'm curious how other people answer them. Maybe I can improve/refine my answers, or at least come to a better understanding of how I go about answering the question.

Let me switch gears and make a statement: participation in a contemporary consumer economy involves an unavoidable amount of complicity in actions I find unethical. Leaving art aside, I own Apple products. I know where they're made, but own them anyway. I still purchase things from Amazon, despite believing many of their labor practices are atrocious. But I've sworn off Chik-fil-A for good...

I'm trying to figure out where I draw the line, or perhaps just make peace with the fact the line is arbitrary.

Not buying anything affiliated with OSC sends a message to the publishers and movie studios and such that I don't want what OSC makes.

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That's fair.

OSC himself also gets the message and may choose to act or not act accordingly.

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I doubt he will. He's stating, in the most hateful way possible, what sure look like deeply-held religious beliefs. Which raises another troubling question: let's say I boycott Card's books (which I effectively have), on the grounds he supports policies/positions I find immoral, am I also ethically bound to boycott his church, which makes far larger monetary contributions to political action groups I think are evil, and, then, by extension, businesses owned by members of his church, whose contributions provide the money?

MasqueradingVampire said:

Not buying anything affiliated with OSC sends a message to the publishers and movie studios and such that I don't want what OSC makes.

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Silent boycott, in all likelihood, sends no message at all. They cannot tell the difference between you not buying because you don't like Card's politics, and you not buying because... you got a copy from the library, or borrowed a friend's, or you just haven't done it yet. You do not send the message that you don't want it - they cannot tell your wants from silence.

Umbran said:

Silent boycott, in all likelihood, sends no message at all. They cannot tell the difference between you not buying because you don't like Card's politics, and you not buying because... you got a copy from the library, or borrowed a friend's, or you just haven't done it yet. You do not send the message that you don't want it - they cannot tell your wants from silence.

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Considering I don't have a ready forum in which to make my stand known, I see it more as a refusal to join the message "More of this, please!" that buying the book/going to the movie sends.

Mallus said:

Right. "How to be an ethical consumer?" is an important question. My wife and I think about it a lot. It's also a terrifically complicated question in a contemporary consumer economy. I don't have a good answer for how to do it (merely the answers I'm using for now). Which is why I asked you questions. I'm curious how other people answer them. Maybe I can improve/refine my answers, or at least come to a better understanding of how I go about answering the question.

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I think it's a complicated problem. For instance, I have no clue what OSC's deeply held beliefs are that are so bad (not because I agree with him, I am simply unaware of the conflict).

How am I supposed to know who is good and who is bad?

What about companies that directly espouse bad views?

What about evil companies that own everything else? RJ Reynolds the cigarette company owns Kraft and a bunch of other companies that we all eat with out realizing we are benefiting an evil overlord?

How far should I make effort to impact these people and companies should I go? is just not buying product enough? Should I lobby to convince others to join me? Should I picket? Should I write my congressman?

Does Activism even work? Does all this effort to bring down WalMart actually have an impact on WalMart?

Or should I just mind my own business and buy what I want/need and accept that as a matter of society, I will inevitably be doing business with people who do not hold the same values as me?

How far should I make effort to impact these people and companies should I go?

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There is no one answer, not even for a single person on one issue, because things change. What you know changes. How the target of your ire reacts changes.

Michael Vick's involvement in dogfighting was deplorable. However, he did his time and seems to have turned over a new leaf. But, despite his apparent reformation, some people continue to vilify him.

I'm sure there are people who refuse to buy Volkswagens and Porsches because of their connections to Hitler, but not many do.

So personally, I do what I feel is most consistent with my personal ethics, but I try motto cutoff my nose to spite my face.

Does Activism even work? Does all this effort to bring down WalMart actually have an impact on WalMart?

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Yes, it does work...if there is enough of it. I was just reading how Cincinatti went from having some of the harshest anti-gay city-ordinances in the countryside having George Takei as the marshal of their Pride Day parade. Much of the credit for that was given to local pressure.

Wal-Mart is more in trouble due to market forces beyond its control currently, but make no mistake: grassroots activism was behind many of the lawsuits leveled against the corporate giant by states' attorney generals. And I know of some small towns that have prevented them from taking root.

Mallus said:

I doubt he will. He's stating, in the most hateful way possible, what sure look like deeply-held religious beliefs. Which raises another troubling question: let's say I boycott Card's books (which I effectively have), on the grounds he supports policies/positions I find immoral, am I also ethically bound to boycott his church, which makes far larger monetary contributions to political action groups I think are evil, and, then, by extension, businesses owned by members of his church, whose contributions provide the money?

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I do. I try (to be fair, sometimes I get lazy and I'm trying to be better about that) to research every company I do business with. Whether its a company that makes something or sells something or provides a service or whatever. If they support views I don't agree with, I don't shop with them, buy their products, etc.

Sometimes its a moral thing - I don't support any company that openly supports an organized religion (any religion). I don't support Wal-Mart because of their poor treatment of their employees.

Sometimes its a progress thing - I don't support cable or network television, at all. I haven't turned on a television in my house for about six years. Any and all tv shows I want to watch, I wait for until they are legally available online. I do this because its my preferred method of watching tv and I want to see the old model become obsolete.

Since I don't have the means (monetary or time) to be politically active as much as I'd like to, this is my main avenue for expressing my political views (besides armchair activism - I talk a pretty good talk on Facebook but that doesn't really amount to much in the grand scheme of things).

Janx said:

I think it's a complicated problem. For instance, I have no clue what OSC's deeply held beliefs are that are so bad (not because I agree with him, I am simply unaware of the conflict).

How am I supposed to know who is good and who is bad?

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Pm sent to answer about OSC..as for the other that gets complicated as time goes on..what's popular now may be bad in the future and what's bad now may be popular in the future.

billd91 said:

Considering I don't have a ready forum in which to make my stand known...

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No ready forum Bill? Really? By dint of you posting here, you demonstrate that you have the internet at your disposal.

One web search and one click - I discover Ender's Game is published by Tor.

One more search, and two clicks, gets me Tor's "Contact Us" page: http://us.macmillan.com/torforge/about/contact

Lo and behold, they have a twitter feed for questions and comments, and a good old fashioned mailing address to which you can send a letter. Similar small efforts will get you contact information about the movie.

So, I have to ask - did you even try? Because it took me about 45 seconds to find that information.