Sounds horrible.
is it me? FFG Star Wars
Sounds horrible.
innerdude
Legend
1. There's an excellent gridless combat / TotM fan adaptation here: http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=36098
2. Cards for initiative --- Feature, not a bug. Cards for initiative is one of the system's best features. Seriously. Once you try it, everything else feels weak in comparison.
3. Raises --- Feature, not bug. Adding even a single element of degree of success adds a freshness to the system that I never felt with D&D / d20.
4. Damage Soak --- This is admittedly a potential pain point for a lot of people, and I'll admit even now it's probably my least favorite part of the system ... but ultimately it allows for an entirely different kind of fiction in terms of combat damage, injury, healing, and recovery that isn't possible for other systems.
Namely, when you suffer an injury, you know without a doubt that it actually caused physical damage. There's no Shrodinger's Injury adjudication after the fact; you don't have to try and rationalize what a "healing surge" is or does; you don't have to rationalize or justify away what hit points are.
Also, it allows for ongoing injury and fatigue effects. Ultimately Savage Worlds' approach to "soaking wounds" is identical to "healing surges" only in reverse---soak checks stop damage from happening "in the moment" in the fiction by basically pushing the "rewind" button; healing surges "restore health" after the fight is over. Ultimately you end up in the same place. The difference is, soak rolls allow for more plausible injury and healing conditions without all the hassles of hit point tracking and rationalizing the fiction along the way. Change the name of both "bennies" in Savage Worlds and "healing surges" in 4e and 5e to "Hero pool," and it's pretty close to functional equivalence.
innerdude
Legend
As much as I want to do the whole, "I respect your opinion, and tastes differ," etc., there's a part of me that wants to scream at the top of my lungs "YOU COULDN'T BE MORE WRONG!!!!"
So instead, I'll offer up some actual evidence --- Savage Worlds is the only game that's not a flavor of "D&D" to register a high enough percentage of games played on Fantasy Grounds to show up on the pie chart as its own segment. No other non-D&D game comes close. Savage Worlds has more games being played on Fantasy Grounds than all of the entire Star Wars variants combined.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/conten...t-Played-On-FANTASY-GROUNDS-In-2015-(Hint-D-D!)
It's definitely doing something right, even if JeffB isn't a fan.
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Chimpy
First Post
I didn't think Fantasy Grounds supported FFG star wars? If that is the case then it might explain that statistic.
A
amerigoV
Guest
In Savage Worlds, while cards are used in a few other ancillary systems, 90%+ of the players and GMs interaction with the cards is for Initiative. As one who went from playing D&D (3rd edition) to Savage Worlds, I can tell you its not a gimmick - its a slick way do initiative in a visual manner. If you ever wanted to do the "roll initiative by PC/monster group every round" alternative in D&D (and I presume the D20 based Star Wars system), its one of the best ways I have seen. Instead of everyone rolling every round, having to gather up numbers and sort them - you just deal the cards. People leave them out/prop them up (some cool people even get place-card holders) and its a easy to see who goes next, who wants to go on hold (flip your card down), the general order of initiative so players can be thinking about their turn, etc. There are Edges (feats) that allow additional cards for those that feel its important to go sooner.
It is a very fast and smooth mechanic, one of the many that are a part of Savage Worlds once you "unlearn what you have learned" from d20/other systems
Anyway, I am a Savage Worlds convert so I will stop at that. If you have questions after looking the system over, feel free to PM me.
Interesting.
I think there's no real advantage to rolling initiative every round. In fact, I think it hurts some games, especially where movement is concerned. In most d20 games, a character can move an unbelievable distance before he is shot with a missile weapon (like an arrow) if he goes last in one round and first in the next round--basically giving the target two rounds of movement (and the archer big penalties) before the archer can let loose a single arrow.
The best way to handle initiative, I think, is to roll it once, when the character enters the fight, and leave it at that. The character has the same initiative count each round (but can change it in the round by various methods to a new number--depends on the actions he takes).
I don't see grabbing a deck of cards and dealing them out to everybody as being any faster than players rolling dice.
But, my big question would be: How does a character's traits effect initiative when using cards?
When using dice, initiative is modified by DEX or Reflexes or whatever. How do you modify the value of a card dealt to you if you've got a quick character?
A
amerigoV
Guest
I only did a bit of 4e, but from what I remember it would not have fared well under this approach (you stun someone at the end of the round and they might get their save right off the bat the next).
In my formative days of D&D we just did a d6 every round to see which side went first. I still fondly recall the tension of a big fight when the HPs were low and who won Initiative was a key moment. So I have always favored that approach - but I never did it under 3.x due to the tracking hassle (and that included using DMGenie to track combat)
The speed is not the cards or the dice, its the tracking of it. Unless you are just letting a computer do it - you need to collect the numbers and sort them (players will want some idea when they are going to go versus other players and critters). Some use white boards, etc. Its one of those things that most people do not do it as the hassle > return.
Having the cards visible on the table eliminates the hassle as everyone can see the order naturally. Plus as GM I can do a bit of drama - a big round I might deal the cards slowly just to build some tension.
You take the Quick Edge - it allows more cards (and Agility [equivalent of Dex] at a certain level is a minimum to take the Edge). In Savage Worlds, there is not the granular +1 or +2 that you have in D20. A +1 in Savage Worlds is more like a +4 or +5 in d20. So what the system does is use the Attributes to linked learn skills easier and access Edges (think very strong Feats) vs. being a direct bonus. Attributes are also used extensively in actual play vs. being a static modifier.
There is also a couple of other Initiative Edges that can give cards based on Smarts (Int) - basically instead of being faster of reflex your character is better at diagnosing the situation and acting sooner.
aramis erak
Legend
You left out my reason for disliking it - it's way too swingy because of the combination of small dice pool (2d) and open ending.
Which makes encounter planning rather difficult...
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