Dungeons and Dragons Movie Rights go to trial

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
Well, yes. I'm not sure why you opened with the word "no" and then agreed with me for two paragraphs. :)

You say, "X doesn't happen." A reply of , "No, X doesn't happen," or "X doesn't happen, no," is a pretty common construction for agreement, Morrus. Maybe you Brits don't use it, but it's day-to-day language here.

Anyway, I agree that it isn't representative of particular content. But I disagree that this is a "problem", as you asserted.

As you say (and I said) it isn't the D&D brand. It might be an actor's branding or a very clever marketing campaign, but it's not "Dungeons & Dragons" that'll sell the tickets.

I think the D&D brand *will* sell tickets. Having a major actor and/or director will help. But D&D is a well-recognized brand, well beyond the players. This is the whole point of WotC's current, "earnings of the brand, not the published rpg, are what matters," philosophy. This approach makes no sense if the brand is not itself well recognized, and able to sell stuff.
 

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Elven

First Post
I think the D&D brand *will* sell tickets. Having a major actor and/or director will help. But D&D is a well-recognized brand, well beyond the players. This is the whole point of WotC's current, "earnings of the brand, not the published rpg, are what matters," philosophy. This approach makes no sense if the brand is not itself well recognized, and able to sell stuff.


Well, I'm sure most people know that James Cameron had shown an interest in directing the first movie,

I doubt he would go near it now due to the mess of the last dvds...


Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda,

Lament for what could have been...and say "no more, this shall not happen again"


(did you know James Mason was chosen to be James Bond first? yeah......yeah)
 

Just restating the obvious, but what I see is this: WotC knows it can make better movies than the wretched execrable stuff that Sweetpea has done. Unfortunately, the film rights to the name of "Dungeons & Dragons" were signed away by WotC's predecessor, TSR, in a most poorly conceived contract. TSR was never run by the worlds brightest business people (that certainly includes Gygax himself). Definitely they were NOT smart enough to realize that when they started dealing with "Hollywood" that they were swimming with sharks and they were out of their depth. Their legal counsel was clearly inadequate and should have drafted a FAR more limited agreement with Sweetpea. WotC are now trying to wrest control of the NAME of their IP back from Sweetpea, who not surprisingly don't want to give up something so POTENTIALLY valuable, even if they themselves are notably talentless and lack the wherewithal to do anything with it but produce drek. To accomplish their task WotC are willing to put forth nearly any loophole or legalistic argument that will succeed. Once it's back under their control they can actually farm it out again to people with talent and money who can actually help them build it into a larger, singular, saleable and reliable brand. Their only comfort is that Sweetpea's efforts past the first film have been so poor they haven't even made it to theaters. Filmgoers tend not to notice straight-to-DVD stuff.

I would like to think that the courts will consider that the legal points they base their decision on will have ramifications far beyond this little squabble (and right now, given the value of "Dungeons & Dragons" as an ongoing movie franchise it certainly is pathetically little.) But, even though judges are supposed to be highly intelligent they make stupid decisions all the time because in the real world LAWFUL really can be stupid. They can base decisions not on what is sensible or equitable but on strict precedent and legalese, and damn the consequences. It will be interesting to watch this play out.
 

Elven

First Post
Just restating the obvious, but what I see is this: WotC knows it can make better movies than the wretched execrable stuff that Sweetpea has done. Unfortunately, the film rights to the name of "Dungeons & Dragons" were signed away by WotC's predecessor, TSR, in a most poorly conceived contract. TSR was never run by the worlds brightest business people (that certainly includes Gygax himself). Definitely they were NOT smart enough to realize that when they started dealing with "Hollywood" that they were swimming with sharks and they were out of their depth. Their legal counsel was clearly inadequate and should have drafted a FAR more limited agreement with Sweetpea. WotC are now trying to wrest control of the NAME of their IP back from Sweetpea, who not surprisingly don't want to give up something so POTENTIALLY valuable, even if they themselves are notably talentless and lack the wherewithal to do anything with it but produce drek. To accomplish their task WotC are willing to put forth nearly any loophole or legalistic argument that will succeed. Once it's back under their control they can actually farm it out again to people with talent and money who can actually help them build it into a larger, singular, saleable and reliable brand. Their only comfort is that Sweetpea's efforts past the first film have been so poor they haven't even made it to theaters. Filmgoers tend not to notice straight-to-DVD stuff.

I would like to think that the courts will consider that the legal points they base their decision on will have ramifications far beyond this little squabble (and right now, given the value of "Dungeons & Dragons" as an ongoing movie franchise it certainly is pathetically little.) But, even though judges are supposed to be highly intelligent they make stupid decisions all the time because in the real world LAWFUL really can be stupid. They can base decisions not on what is sensible or equitable but on strict precedent and legalese, and damn the consequences. It will be interesting to watch this play out.


Sweetpea know this is worth money, best result for everyone is to settle out side of court, (basically return the brand name for a payment) because court feels etc will cost a lot of money,

Btw: its not as damning to look stupid as it is too look guilty, stupid is not always stupid, but malicious,
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
WotC are now trying to wrest control of the NAME of their IP back from Sweetpea...

Small, but important correction - as I understand it, HASBRO is trying to get control back - the suit against Sweetpea is by Hasbro, not WotC. And Universal and Warner Brothers are now in the mix supporting one side or the other, as each have a stake in making a movie.

This makes it a bit more of a tussle than WotC and Sweetpea would be able to muster on their own.
 

Jhaelen

First Post
To be fair, if you ask the general public to name a rpg, chances are it would be D&D
The general public in the US, yes. Here in Germany, you'd either draw a blank or get the name of one of several other rpgs, e.g. Shadowrun, Pathfinder, Das Schwarze Auge or Warhammer.

As I already mentioned in a different thread, there's now a single, exclusive distributor for the entire European region for D&D 5e. Also, it's no longer translated into any foreign languages - that stopped after the initial three 4e core books. D&D as an rpg is of no importance here and as a trademark most remembered for (old) computer games (Baldur's Gate & Neverwinter Nights) and novels (Drizz't).
 

Elven

First Post
The general public in the US, yes. Here in Germany, you'd either draw a blank or get the name of one of several other rpgs, e.g. Shadowrun, Pathfinder, Das Schwarze Auge or Warhammer.

As I already mentioned in a different thread, there's now a single, exclusive distributor for the entire European region for D&D 5e. Also, it's no longer translated into any foreign languages - that stopped after the initial three 4e core books. D&D as an rpg is of no importance here and as a trademark most remembered for (old) computer games (Baldur's Gate & Neverwinter Nights) and novels (Drizz't).


But...its still remembered, and thats whats important, profile,

Look most people never heard of hellboy until the movie, that did not stop it,

I've been giving this legal situation some thought, their claim to infringement is rather shaky at best,
but it seems to be more of a threat/ pressure point, (if they win on this approach they win big, and i doubt sweetpea will walk away as a company)
Sort of like a weak game of Russian roulette, squeeze the trigger you hear a click, okay, squeeze the trigger and boom game over,

I'm guess that sweetpea has asked for an insane amount of money for the return of this license, (in light of TMNT and Transformers,) and they got turned down, these is the kind of pressure tactic you see when they try to force an out of court option,
 

Elven

First Post
Small, but important correction - as I understand it, HASBRO is trying to get control back - the suit against Sweetpea is by Hasbro, not WotC. And Universal and Warner Brothers are now in the mix supporting one side or the other, as each have a stake in making a movie.

This makes it a bit more of a tussle than WotC and Sweetpea would be able to muster on their own.

Sounds like a money grab, everyone wants a chunk of the pie,
 

delericho

Legend
The BoVD ain't a WotC IP? It is fluff and part of the ingame universe, it is not just the name of a splat book, like Bo9S.

As I understand it, Sweetpea's license allowed them to use anything that was in a 'generic' D&D/AD&D book, but not anything setting-specific. So, the BoVD was fair game (being in the DMG), where Drizzt wouldn't be.

I'm hoping the rights go to a company that will make an actual D&D movie.

I'm hoping that the rights go to the legally-correct company, even if that means every D&D movie from here on out is an abomination. Because, as the OP notes, this ruling may well have significant knock-on effects on rights issues generally, so it's important to get the right decision.

That said, the optimum solution is probably an out-of-court settlement - either Hasbro buy the rights back or they buy Sweetpea outright and get them that way.
 

Elven

First Post
I'm just hoping that the rights to go a company that doesn't like Jeremy Irons. Or Channing Tatum. Sorry Mr. Irons.

Seriously though - can we expect a Lord of the Rings-level movie from D&D? Or does the brand depend too much on its younger fanbase to support a serious movie?

It doesn't need a huge budget. I watched Dragonslayer a while back and it was much better than I was expecting. The producers need to spend money on a good screenwriter, not special effects.

I'm guessing a D&D movie would be aimed to be on par with Transformers etc, more family viewing (more booms, less talky)
 

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