D&D 5E Supplemental books: Why the compulsion to buy and use, but complain about it?

Sailor Moon · Oct 3, 2014

Whether you want to call them supplements or splat, these books contain extra options that players and DM can use to expand the game in many ways.

In my thread about splat books, something was mentioned that I find puzzling and yet all too familiar. Where does this compulsion come from that people feel like they have to go out, buy every book, allow every book, and then complain about it? People talk about supplement books drive people away because of their bloat. Just don't use them or allow people in your group to use them in your games. Just create a book limit. I would like to see 5th edition expand it's book count and thus provide us with more options. If a book comes out that I don't like then I just won't buy it. I mean it works for Paizo because they are still going strong. The biggest thing for Wizards is just to make sure they come out with quality content. I am patiently waiting on the Forgotten Realms stuff to start coming in and I really want to see tons of regional books and I don't want this whole fear of bloat to make that not happen.

Paraxis · Oct 3, 2014

I collect books so I get them all, and I use them all. I like to use the stuff I purchase. I can see why someone might want to limit certain things from a book but an entire book wholesale I just don't understand that thinking.

Just also want to say that saying it works for Pathfinder is like comparing apples and oranges, Pathfinder gives away ALL of the crunch from ALL of their books for free online in the SRD. I ran and played many a pathfinder game with very few of the people there having a physical book at all, the SRD was used for everything.

Sailor Moon · Oct 3, 2014

Paraxis said:
I collect books so I get them all, and I use them all. I like to use the stuff I purchase. I can see why someone might want to limit certain things from a book but an entire book wholesale I just don't understand that thinking.

Just also want to say that saying it works for Pathfinder is like comparing apples and oranges, Pathfinder gives away ALL of the crunch from ALL of their books for free online in the SRD. I ran and played many a pathfinder game with very few of the people there having a physical book at all, the SRD was used for everything.

The SRD is good when you specifically what your looking for, but just browsing through can take forever. The books and PDF's still fly off the shelves, if they didn't then the place would be out of business.

Thank Dog · Oct 3, 2014

Sailor Moon said:
Where does this compulsion come from that people feel like they have to go out, buy every book, allow every book, and then complain about it?

Umm... you have heard of this thing called "the internet", yes?

Grimstaff · Oct 3, 2014

I'm not so sure the folks buying them are the ones complaining about them. In my experience it's more Dms and players that don't have them complaining about players showing up at the table wanting to use them and unbalancing the game. Personally, I still feel my blood pressure rise slightly at the words "Vow of Poverty". Never again, WotC, never again...

Sailor Moon · Oct 3, 2014

Grimstaff said:
I'm not so sure the folks buying them are the ones complaining about them. In my experience it's more Dms and players that don't have them complaining about players showing up at the table wanting to use them and unbalancing the game. Personally, I still feel my blood pressure rise slightly at the words "Vow of Poverty". Never again, WotC, never again...

Why can't you just say no at your table and let others who may like it, allow it at their table? Everyone wins.

doctorhook · Oct 3, 2014

Sailor Moon said:
Why can't you just say no at your table and let others who may like it, allow it at their table? Everyone wins.

It's because anybody who played through the 3E era was burned by the sheer volume of problematic splat-options; it became a lot lot simpler to just exclude everything from certain books than to go through the hassle of finding the diamonds in the rough. (Complete Psionic, I'm looking at you.)

TerraDave · Oct 3, 2014

It really is like a bunch of candy that is bad for you and you have to resist. And maybe tell others not to eat.

It would just be easier if their was no candy.

Grimstaff · Oct 3, 2014

Sailor Moon said:
Why can't you just say no at your table and let others who may like it, allow it at their table? Everyone wins.

Because power gamers and minmaxers get hurt feelings and sulk at the game table when you say no

seriously though, it's because too often I've said yes to what seems like an innocuous enough feat, ability, or prestige class from a splat, but 2 or 3 levels later, it's starts to suck the fun out of the room. Then you either have put up with it, or force the player to go back and retrofit his character.

HardcoreDandDGirl · Oct 3, 2014

TerraDave said:
It really is like a bunch of candy that is bad for you and you have to resist. And maybe tell others not to eat.

It would just be easier if their was no candy.

a better example is smoking... because when you do it in a group everyone has the choice of leave the group or put up with the smoke...

lets use some examples from my gaming history...

2e: I have the complete book of elves and want to play a bladesinger. I roll up my 2/2 fighter/wizard elf and write a small backstory. Another player has the complete book of psionics, and he rolls up a human telepath. A third and fourth player make characters from the phb (a dwarf thief, and a half elf Druid/Ranger). The DM doesn't want to say no, and doesn't think any of us are powergaming too much. Now3 players have to put up with my kit some of them don't like it (I never understood why) and one player hates psionics (I kinda see why)... it gets worse when 5 games in a new player comes in and asks to build his own class from an option book... DM gets a say, but what about the rest of us...

or worse

3e/3.5 a DM told us (there where 8 or 9 players) to not talk to each other because his game would center around us being summoned. We could use ANY d20 book, and make a character. We had a Jedi, a Mutants and Mastermind Super hero, a CoC d20 investigator, a 3rd party suppliant class that got 3 different spell pyramids and 4 or 5 D&D characters each from different settings... the game lasted less then an hour.

an example from this thread. Some one brought up Vow of Poverty... and it comes from a great place because it is a love it or hate it feat. Anyone who hates it doesn't just want to not have to buy the book, but also doesn't want to sit across from a player with it.

I've watched many games dove tail into not being run for the opposite reasons
1) DM said "My way or the high way you can't play what you want."
2) DM couldn't say no and we had characters that made other players leave.

yes there is a middle ground, but not always. If you went to the store to buy Book of Exalted Deeds, and came to a game imagine the idea of the DM saying yes or no to Vow of Poverty...

Grimstaff said:
seriously though, it's because too often I've said yes to what seems like an innocuous enough feat, ability, or prestige class from a splat, but 2 or 3 levels later, it's starts to suck the fun out of the room. Then you either have put up with it, or force the player to go back and retrofit his character.

exactly... why should I have to understand the game better then the designers...