SR and arrows of slaying
On the other hand, you don't get SR against the elemental effects on magic weapons which have spells with saving throws as their base spell.
They also affect creatures which are not normally subject to fort save effects, such as Golems and Undead.
Furthermore, Arrows of slaying are already fairly limited.
1) They are only for specific creatures. So your chances of having one for a specific creature are fairly low. Unless you have had substantial time to prepare.
2) Against anything worthwhile (say Cr 10+) already have a DC low enough (20 basic, 23 greater) that the creatures have at minimum a 50-50 chance of making the fort save. Against Dragons (surely the classic target) it gets worse as even a young dragon has a fort save bonus of +11 to +13 and they are only about Cr 7 Creatures. So they are far from a sure kill.
3) They can be negated totally by Death Ward.
PS. Isn't it annoying when someone makes one of the points you were going to make in another post while you are writing yours and you don't find out until after you've finished it?
They also affect creatures which are not normally subject to fort save effects, such as Golems and Undead.
Furthermore, Arrows of slaying are already fairly limited.
1) They are only for specific creatures. So your chances of having one for a specific creature are fairly low. Unless you have had substantial time to prepare.
2) Against anything worthwhile (say Cr 10+) already have a DC low enough (20 basic, 23 greater) that the creatures have at minimum a 50-50 chance of making the fort save. Against Dragons (surely the classic target) it gets worse as even a young dragon has a fort save bonus of +11 to +13 and they are only about Cr 7 Creatures. So they are far from a sure kill.
3) They can be negated totally by Death Ward.
PS. Isn't it annoying when someone makes one of the points you were going to make in another post while you are writing yours and you don't find out until after you've finished it?
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Zad
First Post
Oh don't get me wrong - I don't think they should be affected by SR - as you all pointed out, they're way too limited as it is.
But this is a pretty much straight forward spell-like effect going off with the arrow, and I can't see any reason that it wouldn't be affected by SR.
Frankly, I can't remember any part of the rules that gives us any clear guidelines on what is or is not affected by SR for this kind of thing. The point about a flaming weapon is well taken. On the other hand, a wand with Finger of Death would certainly have SR apply. Where's the line? Beats the heck out of me. So I suspect DM judgement applies. Given the crazy cost of a single arrow (2282 gp or 4057gp) I'd be inclined to say SR does not apply - they're useless enough as it is.
But this is a pretty much straight forward spell-like effect going off with the arrow, and I can't see any reason that it wouldn't be affected by SR.
Frankly, I can't remember any part of the rules that gives us any clear guidelines on what is or is not affected by SR for this kind of thing. The point about a flaming weapon is well taken. On the other hand, a wand with Finger of Death would certainly have SR apply. Where's the line? Beats the heck out of me. So I suspect DM judgement applies. Given the crazy cost of a single arrow (2282 gp or 4057gp) I'd be inclined to say SR does not apply - they're useless enough as it is.
Zad said:
Well there is one other thing I just thought of. Generally spells that require an attack roll do not grant saves (One of the reasons why Harm was the way it was, pre-errata). Finger of death has no attack roll (nor would a wand of it), but one IS required with the arrow of slaying. Since it still grants a fort save, negating the SR is not unreasonable, especially since the save is not especially high.
kreynolds
First Post
Zad said:
The guidelines are there, and they're pretty straight-forward. For example...
A Fireball spell is subject to SR. Fireball from a wand is subject to SR. The flaming enhancement, which can be powered by a Fireball, is not subject to SR. The enhancement also does not release a spell, but merely produces an effect.
A Finger of Death spell is subject to SR. A Finger of Death from a wand-like wondrous item is subject to SR. A Slaying Arrow, which is powered by Finger of Death, is not subject to SR. A Slaying Arrow does not release a spell, but merely produces an effect.
Also, from the SRD...
