pounce (MM) = pounce (MM II) ?

Dark Dragon · Jan 30, 2003

Hi,

the two monster manuals show different descriptions for pounce. To prevent further discussions in my group (without using rule 0), I'm searching for a clear answer on that matter...

From the SRD (MM):

Pounce (Ex): If a leopard leaps upon a foe during the first round of combat, it can make a full attack even if it has already taken a move action.

I don't have the MM II at work, but the pounce description for a swamplight lynx, jarilith or a legendary tiger is something like that:

If the creature successfully charges against an opponent, it can make a full attack (and also rake, if available).

Thanx for help,

the Dark Dragon

Burne · Jan 30, 2003

Pouce isn't consistent across Creatures, some get the "When I charge, full attack" some get that "plus some hind claw action" some get a first round only version. Just depends on the creature.

IceBear · Jan 30, 2003

I think the new pounce helps clarify the ability - some people were confused. It's acutally how I houseruled pounce to work since almost the beginning (look at how a big cat takes down prey). As long as you treat the creature with the right intelligence (ie, a lepord double moving away so it can charge back at you the next round), it's not overpowering. That said, I don't have a druid in my party so that might make a difference there.

IceBear

Pielorinho · Jan 31, 2003

IceBear said:
I think the new pounce helps clarify the ability - some people were confused. It's acutally how I houseruled pounce to work since almost the beginning (look at how a big cat takes down prey). As long as you treat the creature with the right intelligence (ie, a lepord double moving away so it can charge back at you the next round), it's not overpowering. That said, I don't have a druid in my party so that might make a difference there.

IceBear

It's a good question. As a druid player, I cringe at the idea of making tigers any more effective in combat than they already are: in general, my tiger does more damage in combat than any individual PC, even when you don't consider the great effect that grappling has on enemies (no spells, no weapons, etc.) Be careful about this change if you've got druidic players: being able to pounce several times in a battle could get nasty.

Daniel

isoChron · Jan 31, 2003

I'm with IceBear. As long as you don't play animals unusual (move back, pounce, move back, pounce,.....) there is no reason why a pounce should only work in the first round of combat .
Remember : the victim must not be flatfooted or fulfill any other condition to be pounced. So not even be surprised ! Only in the first round of combat. If the tiger watches the targets in the first round he can't pounce anymore.
Hmmm, seems like a cheap and bad way to turn down some monsters/druids to me. I can't see a logical reason (I know, I know, it's D&D ....

) for not allowing to pounce after a charge and I think the designers of the MMII shared this point of view.

However, we houseruled Pounce to the MMII-Version as soon as MMII came out.

BYE

Aloïsius · Jan 31, 2003

Pounce always works the same inside a same MM.

MM1 only allow to pounce after a leap during the first round of combat, MM2 replaced that by allowing to pounce whenever the pouncing creature charge.

Any creature with rake can rake during a pounce.

Dark Dragon · Feb 1, 2003

Aloïsius said:
Pounce always works the same inside a same MM.

MM1 only allow to pounce after a leap during the first round of combat, MM2 replaced that by allowing to pounce whenever the pouncing creature charge.

Any creature with rake can rake during a pounce.

Although that argument seems to make sense, I still have some problems to make a difference between the tiger's pounce in the MM and the legendary tiger's pounce in the MM II. Both are animals (INT 2), both are large, both have Improved Grab, Rake and pounce. The difference: the legendary tiger is stronger and tougher, that's all.

Aloïsius · Feb 1, 2003

Aloïsius said:
Pounce always works the same inside a same MM.

MM1 only allow to pounce after a leap during the first round of combat, MM2 replaced that by allowing to pounce whenever the pouncing creature charge.

Any creature with rake can rake during a pounce.

This was Gez post. That's what happen when you share the same computer with someone else, and he is too lazzy to log out...

pounce (MM) = pounce (MM II) ?

Dark Dragon

Explorer

Burne

First Post

IceBear

Explorer

Pielorinho

Iron Fist of Pelor

isoChron

First Post

Aloïsius

First Post

Dark Dragon

Explorer

Aloïsius

First Post

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