Melee Cleric Build
Domains:
War - free weapon focus
Time - IDHMBWM, but I think it gives you true strike and haste. If not, get domains that give you both.
Feats:
Power Attack
Extend Spell
Persistant Spell
Those are really all that are necessary. If you want you can go down a feat chain for TWF, SA, Great Cleave, or something else. However, with extended buff spells (bull's str, endurance, etc.) and persistant boost spells like PfE, DF, SoF, etc., and finally DP you should never really miss.
You will never be as combat versatile as a fighter but you can hit as often and deal as much damage without a problem. You may want to consider several alternatives as well:
If you want mobility there is the fifth level spell divine agility that gives you SA, dex 18, and a base reflex save equal to a rogue of your level. I would not recommend taking the feat chain as you would not get SA until 6th level anyway (w/its BAB prereq) and that's if you strictly focused on that chain. If you decided to wait, it would not be until 9th level you could take it and by then you have access to 5th level spells anyway for divine agility. However, that does not mean that you should not take other mobility focused feats. Expertise, IT, and KD is a great feat chain to take. If you combine it with a reach weapon and combat reflexes you begin to control the battle feild. Any mobility focused cleric though will need a high dex (for CR, to counteract the lack of AC from being able to only wear Med Armor if you want to use SA, etc.). So that takes away from your con, wis, and chr - the three most important stats for a cleric.
You could also go the TWF route and take ambid, twf, at level 1 if you are human. Remember thought that doing so also carries with it the dex requirement (think it is dex 15+).
A few feat chains that are of particular use are the divine feats. Divine Shield combined with shield charge is particularly effective. This requires a high chr, though. However, if you go that route you can then also go for power attack and divine might. Divine vigor is also useful for the speed increase if you are trying to go for mobility.
War - free weapon focus
Time - IDHMBWM, but I think it gives you true strike and haste. If not, get domains that give you both.
Feats:
Power Attack
Extend Spell
Persistant Spell
Those are really all that are necessary. If you want you can go down a feat chain for TWF, SA, Great Cleave, or something else. However, with extended buff spells (bull's str, endurance, etc.) and persistant boost spells like PfE, DF, SoF, etc., and finally DP you should never really miss.
You will never be as combat versatile as a fighter but you can hit as often and deal as much damage without a problem. You may want to consider several alternatives as well:
If you want mobility there is the fifth level spell divine agility that gives you SA, dex 18, and a base reflex save equal to a rogue of your level. I would not recommend taking the feat chain as you would not get SA until 6th level anyway (w/its BAB prereq) and that's if you strictly focused on that chain. If you decided to wait, it would not be until 9th level you could take it and by then you have access to 5th level spells anyway for divine agility. However, that does not mean that you should not take other mobility focused feats. Expertise, IT, and KD is a great feat chain to take. If you combine it with a reach weapon and combat reflexes you begin to control the battle feild. Any mobility focused cleric though will need a high dex (for CR, to counteract the lack of AC from being able to only wear Med Armor if you want to use SA, etc.). So that takes away from your con, wis, and chr - the three most important stats for a cleric.
You could also go the TWF route and take ambid, twf, at level 1 if you are human. Remember thought that doing so also carries with it the dex requirement (think it is dex 15+).
A few feat chains that are of particular use are the divine feats. Divine Shield combined with shield charge is particularly effective. This requires a high chr, though. However, if you go that route you can then also go for power attack and divine might. Divine vigor is also useful for the speed increase if you are trying to go for mobility.
Shard O'Glase
First Post
The feats power attack
extend
persistent
as posted before are the core of it.
I add in craft arms and armor, so I can deisign my own equipment and maximize the effect I can gain form item boost spells like thorns, GMW, and magical vestment.(IE low+ lots of special qualities)
Also if you havea good CHR look into some of the defnders of the faith spend a turning attempt abilites. The one that gives a boost to damage=to chr bonus gets sick if you ahve a decent starting CHR and use spells/items to boost it.
Domains: depends on what you have access to. Me I'm strict about clerics and stick just to PH domains.(spells too which kicks out the thorns spell)
the good ones for melle are str, destruction, war.
Personally I shie away form the mellee ones a bit unless they also give me good spell access. i like str for the bigbies, and war for the power words so both of those rock in that department.( I think war is a bit too good) But I honestly prefer the magic domian for its special abiity and it has decent spells too.(It lets me also buff with wizard buff spells like shield, haste, tensers transformation etc. form scrolls, wands, or staves) Basically I think power attack, extend, persistent covers enough that I'd broden my horizons with my domain choices instead of focusing more.
extend
persistent
as posted before are the core of it.
I add in craft arms and armor, so I can deisign my own equipment and maximize the effect I can gain form item boost spells like thorns, GMW, and magical vestment.(IE low+ lots of special qualities)
Also if you havea good CHR look into some of the defnders of the faith spend a turning attempt abilites. The one that gives a boost to damage=to chr bonus gets sick if you ahve a decent starting CHR and use spells/items to boost it.
Domains: depends on what you have access to. Me I'm strict about clerics and stick just to PH domains.(spells too which kicks out the thorns spell)
the good ones for melle are str, destruction, war.
Personally I shie away form the mellee ones a bit unless they also give me good spell access. i like str for the bigbies, and war for the power words so both of those rock in that department.( I think war is a bit too good) But I honestly prefer the magic domian for its special abiity and it has decent spells too.(It lets me also buff with wizard buff spells like shield, haste, tensers transformation etc. form scrolls, wands, or staves) Basically I think power attack, extend, persistent covers enough that I'd broden my horizons with my domain choices instead of focusing more.
Numion
First Post
Empower Spell for Bull's Strengths
At higher levels use Miracle to cast polymorph, then poly into a stone giant. Gets a nice armor and STR boost.
Otherwise the cleric build is pretty basic. Stay straight cleric, since you don't want to lose on caster levels. Some PrC's might be appropriate, like divine disciple; just make sure they've got full spellcasting (+1 caster level each level)
At higher levels use Miracle to cast polymorph, then poly into a stone giant. Gets a nice armor and STR boost.
Otherwise the cleric build is pretty basic. Stay straight cleric, since you don't want to lose on caster levels. Some PrC's might be appropriate, like divine disciple; just make sure they've got full spellcasting (+1 caster level each level)
Numion
First Post
Surefoot said:
Au contraire. Not maybe at 1st level, but when Divine Favors, Divine Powers and Empowered Bull's Strengths start to kick in, the barbarians have hard time keeping up with your damage total.
Consider also that due to his spells the cleric can deal damage in situations in which the non-spellcasters are all but useless. Maybe they'll shine in arena-style gladiator matches, but in real gameplay clerics will deal more damage.
For example, at higher levels the barb/fighter/tribal whatever may sometimes have hard time attacking and enemy who has mirror images or displacement. Cleric can always cast True Seeing and lay the smack down. These differences are further compounded by the fact that most DMs are a bit stingy about magic, and clerics aren't dependent on magic items that much.
Another fact is that a buffed up cleric is a bitch (read = very hard) to kill. It's hard to deal damage when you're Held or dead.
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Surefoot
First Post
on their own, clerics outshine any class, including the wizard.
however in a 'standard' party i would say the figher is the better 'fighter', for a couple of reasons:
a) the cleric must heal others
b) the cleric must cast buffing spells first before going into combat. Stuff like Divine Power and Divine Favor. Persistent may help but comes at the cost of Mass Heal...
c) when there are invisible creatures, the cleric must cast invisibility purge
d) the cleric must cast remove paralysis, dispel magic...
However i think with 2 cleric in a party, things would be different.
however in a 'standard' party i would say the figher is the better 'fighter', for a couple of reasons:
a) the cleric must heal others
b) the cleric must cast buffing spells first before going into combat. Stuff like Divine Power and Divine Favor. Persistent may help but comes at the cost of Mass Heal...
c) when there are invisible creatures, the cleric must cast invisibility purge
d) the cleric must cast remove paralysis, dispel magic...
However i think with 2 cleric in a party, things would be different.
Numion
First Post
Cleric is not required to use his spells on others. If I went to a group that insisted on getting a dip on my buffing spells, I'd say "F that. I'll play barbarian then. Good luck getting my rage.".
Clerics abilities are his abilities. If I want to use my spells to help myself in combat, I'll do just that. Others better buy some cure wands - I'll gladly use them, between combats. Just like barbarian doesn't lend his class ability (rage) to others, I won't cast a GMW on the groups fighters if I want to use that slot for example Airwalk. He's free to buy me a 4th level pearl of power, and then I'll cast any 4th level spell on him once a day.
I'm not a wanker though, and realize that sometimes it's for the better if I buff others. However, getting the use of my abilities is a privilige for the rest of the group, not a right. I usually, for example, offer one 2nd slot for the groups rogue. He can choose endurance or delay poison or whatever. But if I really needed that slot, good luck, rogue.
Clerics abilities are his abilities. If I want to use my spells to help myself in combat, I'll do just that. Others better buy some cure wands - I'll gladly use them, between combats. Just like barbarian doesn't lend his class ability (rage) to others, I won't cast a GMW on the groups fighters if I want to use that slot for example Airwalk. He's free to buy me a 4th level pearl of power, and then I'll cast any 4th level spell on him once a day.
I'm not a wanker though, and realize that sometimes it's for the better if I buff others. However, getting the use of my abilities is a privilige for the rest of the group, not a right. I usually, for example, offer one 2nd slot for the groups rogue. He can choose endurance or delay poison or whatever. But if I really needed that slot, good luck, rogue.
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