Rune
Once A Fool
I'm familiar with the Sherlock Holmes edition, but which edition of D&D did Dracula author?
D&D 5E Edition Wars, WHY?
I'm familiar with the Sherlock Holmes edition, but which edition of D&D did Dracula author?
Sir Brennen
Legend
Not an entire edition, but Dracula added a new spin and flavor to his vision of the game via the Ravenloft module. Really just an ode to himself, he tried covering up his egotism by writing the module under, not one, but two pseudonyms - Tracy and Laura Hickman.
Nergal Pendragon
First Post
One thing to keep in mind when discussing edition wars is you have to ask yourself if you are innocent of causing it or innocent of contributing to it.
Sometimes, we are not aware we are contributing to it until after we take some time, think about it, and come back to look. That's part of why I take regular breaks from most discussions on this site; I'm taking time to reflect on my actions.
One thing you can notice about those who do edition war is they often will mis-state what others have done when seeking sympathy. It's a sign to watch out for in oneself, which is why I tend to make it a point to try to back off a bit and get a clear head before discussing my role in multi-edition discussions. Sometimes, I have to admit that, even though I felt the aggrieved party, it was my fault. Sometimes, I see it wasn't, but that I should have recognized what was going on and backed out. It's a learning process, and one you go through your entire life.
Sometimes, we are not aware we are contributing to it until after we take some time, think about it, and come back to look. That's part of why I take regular breaks from most discussions on this site; I'm taking time to reflect on my actions.
One thing you can notice about those who do edition war is they often will mis-state what others have done when seeking sympathy. It's a sign to watch out for in oneself, which is why I tend to make it a point to try to back off a bit and get a clear head before discussing my role in multi-edition discussions. Sometimes, I have to admit that, even though I felt the aggrieved party, it was my fault. Sometimes, I see it wasn't, but that I should have recognized what was going on and backed out. It's a learning process, and one you go through your entire life.
Sacrosanct
Legend
Ding ding, we have a winner. I've seen it for fans of every edition, every hobby, every opinion.
I know I'm not guilt free of this over the years, but I think a question that needs to be asked of oneself is, "If you're making a reply, can your argument stand on it's own without needing to modify what the other side had actually said?"
Because if you're accusing one side of saying something that is used as the basis for your argument, I'd hope you can provide actual examples of what they said, rather than modifications that you might not have interpreted correctly.
It's a common debating tactic; it's the straw man fallacy. Happens everywhere.
People are so short sighted when it comes to looking at themselves.
I have seen someone posting in this very thread, accuse 4e of lots of things including not being D&D. Same person has told me to go play a different game or edition, because I have the gall to criticize things about the current edition. No version of anything is perfect, and there is always ways to improve, people make mistakes in game design, don't do the hard work, and it is fair to point it out when that happens. But it is just crazy that such an edition warrior is trying to convince himself and others that he is not in fact one himself.
The best analogy I ever heard was D&D (or gaming in general) is like a road trip with friends. You might want certain features about the vehicle you take, things like satellite radio, mp3 player, dvd, convertible top, extra leg room, good gas milage, even color of paint and types of rims. Your friends along for the ride might all want different things than you do. The thing about road trips, is in the end it isn't the vehicle or the destination it is the people in the car with you. So it doesn't matter what edition you use, or the guys at the next table or in the next vehicle use, it is about the people you have fun with.
I have played every edition of D&D, and many many more systems of table top rpgs over the last three decades. I have enjoyed all of it. I played both 4th edition and Pathfinder a bunch over the last 10 years, I play multiple games of 5e now, all are good, all are D&D.
Saying that though doesn't mean I don't find glaring faults and issues with all these games.
I love my kids, that doesn't mean when they make mistakes, do shoddy work, or just ignore things they have previously learned I should give them a pass. Those are my kids, and I still tell them what they do wrong and suggest ways to fix it. I only like D&D, so yeah I got no qualms about saying what I don't like about it.
I have seen someone posting in this very thread, accuse 4e of lots of things including not being D&D. Same person has told me to go play a different game or edition, because I have the gall to criticize things about the current edition. No version of anything is perfect, and there is always ways to improve, people make mistakes in game design, don't do the hard work, and it is fair to point it out when that happens. But it is just crazy that such an edition warrior is trying to convince himself and others that he is not in fact one himself.
The best analogy I ever heard was D&D (or gaming in general) is like a road trip with friends. You might want certain features about the vehicle you take, things like satellite radio, mp3 player, dvd, convertible top, extra leg room, good gas milage, even color of paint and types of rims. Your friends along for the ride might all want different things than you do. The thing about road trips, is in the end it isn't the vehicle or the destination it is the people in the car with you. So it doesn't matter what edition you use, or the guys at the next table or in the next vehicle use, it is about the people you have fun with.
I have played every edition of D&D, and many many more systems of table top rpgs over the last three decades. I have enjoyed all of it. I played both 4th edition and Pathfinder a bunch over the last 10 years, I play multiple games of 5e now, all are good, all are D&D.
Saying that though doesn't mean I don't find glaring faults and issues with all these games.
I love my kids, that doesn't mean when they make mistakes, do shoddy work, or just ignore things they have previously learned I should give them a pass. Those are my kids, and I still tell them what they do wrong and suggest ways to fix it. I only like D&D, so yeah I got no qualms about saying what I don't like about it.
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billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him)
And others might say the same about you. After all, a lot of edition warring behavior has come from people belittling or dismissing other people's opinions, preferences, and concerns. The comment about road trips is dismissive of a lot of concerns that may come up on any particular road trip and ruin the experience for people under the blanket statement that "it's the people in the car with you". That's your opinion and reflects your values - but not everybody else's. I daresay that a substantial road trip with my best friends in Dave's old Brown Mech (yes, the car was named) would have been a terrible experience even though it would have been with friends (assuming anybody sitting in back didn't die of CO poisoning and the car's brakes functioned when needed - a dicey proposition).
So it's not just about trashing an edition, even repeatedly. Hand in hand with an abundance of criticism, in the edition wars, is a lack of respect of differing opinions and perspectives. That's one area where, I think, people are particularly short-sighted when looking at themselves.
GMforPowergamers
Legend
I am a big man... over 350lbs. Me and two equal to larger size friends drove from CT on the east coast to Gen Con in a trans am with no back seat.... the con was great (it was the 90's in Milwaukee) and our first gen con... but I promise you if my choice was to repeat that ride or die in a flood... I would hold my breath as long as I could...
I don't even know how we made it home...
See people do read into what others say while modifying it to fit what they think.
I said "features" of the vehicle, what people are comparing it to is a death trap that should probably not be on the road at all, completely unsafe to be in. That is not what I said.
You want everyone to have have a sense of safety and buy into the road trip or game, you shouldn't try and force your friends to get into a car they don't think will get them to the destination safely, just like you shouldn't try to get a 4e hater to play that game.
All I was trying to say, is in the end it is the experience and the memories, not the type of seats or if the car was blue or red. I have good memories of every edition of D&D and sadly a few bad memories along the way too, most of that had far more to do with who I played with and not what edition we played.
I said "features" of the vehicle, what people are comparing it to is a death trap that should probably not be on the road at all, completely unsafe to be in. That is not what I said.
You want everyone to have have a sense of safety and buy into the road trip or game, you shouldn't try and force your friends to get into a car they don't think will get them to the destination safely, just like you shouldn't try to get a 4e hater to play that game.
All I was trying to say, is in the end it is the experience and the memories, not the type of seats or if the car was blue or red. I have good memories of every edition of D&D and sadly a few bad memories along the way too, most of that had far more to do with who I played with and not what edition we played.
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