The Chronicles of Narcissist

Ryujin · Jul 9, 2015

Umbran said:
Depends on what you call "real power". The veto winds up being a *major* point - that which the President does not like, does not become law unless you have serious support in the legislature. This forces the system to have a whole lot of negotiation, and puts the President in a solid position to lead that negotiation - thus, a lot of effective power.

The President can send a bill back for re-vote, if I understand the process correctly. Given the adversarial nature of your government that will almost certainly kill it, in practice, but the theory is to force a re-think.

The Prime Minister of Canada is in charge of the process from inception, to signing into law. He leads the party in power. When comparing the levels of power in their respective governments, the Prime Minister has far more power. Note that I'm not saying that's a good thing.

Umbran · Jul 9, 2015

Ryujin said:
The President can send a bill back for re-vote, if I understand the process correctly. Given the adversarial nature of your government that will almost certainly kill it, in practice, but the theory is to force a re-think.

The Prime Minister of Canada is in charge of the process from inception, to signing into law. He leads the party in power. When comparing the levels of power in their respective governments, the Prime Minister has far more power. Note that I'm not saying that's a good thing.

The effect is not as different as you may think - the US president isn't technically in charge of legislation through the whole process, but you know that you have to pass muster at the end - so usually nobody starts things without knowing that either the president will allow it, or that they have very broad support to overcome the veto.

Unless they want to waste time. There's a whole lot of that.

tomBitonti · Jul 9, 2015

So ... given the low view folks here have of Trump ... how does that square with his apparent popularity? And he is doing something well enough that he is a billionaire. I detest the man, but he has a high level of function in his usual domain.

Of course, he may have overdone himself. His run seems to be costing him a lot of business. He just lost the top chef for his new hotel: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...cks-out-of-restaurant-in-donald-trumps-hotel/

Thx,

TomB

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 9, 2015

tomBitonti said:
So ... given the low view folks here have of Trump ... how does that square with his apparent popularity? And he is doing something well enough that he is a billionaire. I detest the man, but he has a high level of function in his usual domain.

Of course, he may have overdone himself. His run seems to be costing him a lot of business. He just lost the top chef for his new hotel: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...cks-out-of-restaurant-in-donald-trumps-hotel/

Thx,

TomB

He's near the top of the polls in a field with a large number of choices. He's probably getting a lot of support from people that the architects of the Southern Strategy and similarly divisive political schemes have been courting...and not many others besides. IOW, he's probably very popular with the right-wing fringe, and not nearly so much with the more mainstream membership of the party.

As for his status as a billionaire, don't read too much into that. He got a big boost from having inherited much of his wealth. He also got some sweetheart deals from creditors when he messed up- the kind most business owners simply would not get if they asked.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15623..._government's_protection_mostly_did_the_trick

In addition, being a billionaire real-estate developer doesn't require a political/diplomatic skillset. One has to be good at evaluating property and economic trends (at least on the local scale), but interpersonal skills, empathy, and the like are surplus to requirements.

Umbran · Jul 9, 2015

Dannyalcatraz said:
He's near the top of the polls in a field with a large number of choices.

Yes. In recent CNN polls, he's running at 12%. That's not exactly a stunning mandate. It isn't like he's approaching a majority of the GOP wanting him to run, or something.

As for his status as a billionaire, don't read too much into that. He got a big boost from having inherited much of his wealth. He also got some sweetheart deals from creditors when he messed up- the kind most business owners simply would not get if they asked.

Yes. Let's put an example on this. From Wikipedia:

"One of Trump's first projects, while he was still in college, was the revitalization of the foreclosed Swifton Village apartment complex in Cincinnati, Ohio, which his father had purchased for $5.7 million in 1962."

So, Trump's family had the wherewithal to buy an apartment complex for what, in today's money, is about $45 million dollars. The project to revitalize it cost, in today's dollars, about $4 million - so, this family could manage $50 million dollar investments. We are not talking about a guy who has built himself up from nothing.

He's clearly a capable financier and real estate developer, but I am not sure that, at his level, his personal diplomatic abilities (or lack thereof) impact his business. They would certainly impact his ability to function as President.

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 9, 2015

In his first (note that word) bankruptcy, among other kid-glove measures, he was allowed to take out 2nd and even 3rd mortgages on certain properties.

Joe Businessman doesn't get that kind of treatment.

Homicidal_Squirrel · Jul 9, 2015

tomBitonti said:
And he is doing something well enough that he is a billionaire.

Eh... that's questionable. That he is wealthy is not in question. His worth, though, tends to be debated, most of all by him. If I remember correctly, he said he was worth about 9 billion dollars during his Presidential suicide announcement. There was a reporter that said trump was worth around 250 million, and Trump sued him for defamation or something like that. In any case, it seems that it depends on whom you ask. Trump's estimate of his own wealth tend to be far off from what others have estimated. Some still have him in the billions. Forbes, for example, put him somewhere around 4 billion. However, they have valued various elements of his wealth at a far lower value than trump does. Others value Trump in the millions.

The thing with Trump is, he is a smart guy. He gets others to invest, put in a bunch of money, and sign off on ridiculously stupid deals. Then when Trump fails, which he does often, the investors get the shaft, and Trump gets to keep their money. I don't know if that's the kind of guy you want running the economy. I mean, he'll run it... right into the ground. Regardless what what you think of any other republican or democrat running, none of them would wreck it as bad as Trump. Although I'l admit this: It would be fun to watch.

tomBitonti · Jul 9, 2015

Homicidal_Squirrel said:
Eh... that's questionable. That he is wealthy is not in question. His worth, though, tends to be debated, most of all by him. If I remember correctly, he said he was worth about 9 billion dollars during his Presidential suicide announcement. There was a reporter that said trump was worth around 250 million, and Trump sued him for defamation or something like that. In any case, it seems that it depends on whom you ask. Trump's estimate of his own wealth tend to be far off from what others have estimated. Some still have him in the billions. Forbes, for example, put him somewhere around 4 billion. However, they have valued various elements of his wealth at a far lower value than trump does. Others value Trump in the millions.

The thing with Trump is, he is a smart guy. He gets others to invest, put in a bunch of money, and sign off on ridiculously stupid deals. Then when Trump fails, which he does often, the investors get the shaft, and Trump gets to keep their money. I don't know if that's the kind of guy you want running the economy. I mean, he'll run it... right into the ground. Regardless what what you think of any other republican or democrat running, none of them would wreck it as bad as Trump. Although I'l admit this: It would be fun to watch.

Well, the point isn't whether he is a nice guy, or whether you or I want him as president or as a business partner. The point is the number of people who do. That goes to say that I'm not getting something, as an analysis of candidacy and politics has to provide a sufficient perspective to explain, and I for one am perplexed.

Thx!

TomB

Dannyalcatraz · Jul 9, 2015

P.T. Barnum* might as well have been talking about The Donald when he said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

* or David Hannum, depending on your sources.

Homicidal_Squirrel · Jul 9, 2015

tomBitonti said:
Well, the point isn't whether he is a nice guy, or whether you or I want him as president or as a business partner.

Oh, I know. I just wanted to add a bit of information regarding his wealth.

The point is the number of people who do. That goes to say that I'm not getting something, as an analysis of candidacy and politics has to provide a sufficient perspective to explain, and I for one am perplexed.

Thx!

TomB

You shouldn't be perplexed. The answer is simple: There are a lot of stupid people. Being rich does not exempt these people from stupidity. Some of them are wiling to take a risk on trump to make a profit. It's a gamble. It's part of the business of investing. There is no guarantee that you'll actually make a profit. They just assume that Trump knows how to make money, and he does. Unfortunately for his investors, Trump's interest are in making money for himself, not them.

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