Is the term "racism" being stretched too far, applied to too many things?

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Dannyalcatraz

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"This video is blocked in your country on copyright grounds." Sounds great! I'm being discriminated against on geographical grounds! :)

Hilarious!

FWIW, it's a clip from the "England Expects" episode of Chef!- early on, where he has to find an English wine to take to a cooking competition...in France.
 

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Umbran

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Oh, there's still no love lost between us and the French. But I don't think either party is particularly suffering from discrimination; there's no significant power or population differential.

Right now. There's been a thousand years or so since then.

But, it sure looks like Robin Hood (the modern remnant of tales of earlier men) is a vestige of a rather different situation between the Saxons and Normans, no?
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
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Right now. There's been a thousand years or so since then.

But, it sure looks like Robin Hood (the modern remnant of tales of earlier men) is a vestige of a rather different situation between the Saxons and Normans, no?

Sure.
 

Jhaelen

First Post
These are things that I don't see how they can be called racism. A verbal mistake, an embarrassing error, sure. But *racism*? That's like calling eating a burger, "murder." When you apply a serious word to a minor gaff, you weaken the serious word. You make it silly.
Well, I've definitely heard of several overzealous vegans calling meat-cosuming persons murderers; for example Morissey (popular singer, of former 'The Smiths' fame).

And I agree, it really seems quite silly, making it hard for me to take them seriously. Actually, I feel they're doing themselves and their cause a disservice. (Note, that I'm a vegetarian, myself, but I don't mind anyone eating meat - to each their own.)
 

Jhaelen

First Post
Are some folks trying to make racism seem more prevalent by identifying so much little stuff as racist.
I'm quite sure that's the case.

It reminds me about a documentary I watched a few years ago: Defamation; Anti-Semitism - The Movie.
It prominently features an organisation called 'Anti Defamation League' and demonstrates quite excellently how they artificially blow up the number of anti-semitic incidents to advertize their organisation and collect more donations. It also adressed the important difference between Judaism and Zionism.

Being a German, this is still quite a sensitive issue for me. It's a good thing the director of the documentary is an Israeli himself...
 

Umbran

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I'm quite sure that's the case.

I think it is far more complicated than that. Yes, there are going to be some who attempt to personally gain from the situation, but that is not an argument that the problem is not real and important.

I will have to use what to some has become an unfortunate word: privilege. The people who need to know about racism are privileged to not experience it. So, they are largely unaware of it. They don't live with it day to day. They tend to discount or overlook reports, and when something notable does happen, they quickly forget, and take no useful action. When you ask such people how prevalent racism is, they will tend to vastly underestimate it, even though people have been telling them about it for years.

The obvious counter to this is to put more effort into making racism obvious to such people, in the hopes of making it clear to them that there is a problem, and their silence is not good. The result is that you may see some attempts to over-report or over-state the issues. This would not be necessary if the rest of us were not so darned thick-headed about it.
 

Ryujin

Legend
I think it is far more complicated than that. Yes, there are going to be some who attempt to personally gain from the situation, but that is not an argument that the problem is not real and important.

I will have to use what to some has become an unfortunate word: privilege. The people who need to know about racism are privileged to not experience it. So, they are largely unaware of it. They don't live with it day to day. They tend to discount or overlook reports, and when something notable does happen, they quickly forget, and take no useful action. When you ask such people how prevalent racism is, they will tend to vastly underestimate it, even though people have been telling them about it for years.

The obvious counter to this is to put more effort into making racism obvious to such people, in the hopes of making it clear to them that there is a problem, and their silence is not good. The result is that you may see some attempts to over-report or over-state the issues. This would not be necessary if the rest of us were not so darned thick-headed about it.

As a middle-aged white male it is definitely difficult for me to relate to racism on any real personal level. The closest that I can come is when I was subjected to a tirade by a gentleman of East Indian origins, while working at the airport, because I pointed out to him that as an able bodied person he was not permitted to park in the designated handicapped parking spaces. Dealing with his racist comments (some of which had to do with him accusing me of being racist, like every other white person, because I wouldn't let him break the law) is far from the same as dealing with systemic racism almost every day of your life.

There are some things that are, however obviously wrong to anyone. For example I had a rather long and heated debate with someone who spouted claims based on his "Scottish race." This was during a long, very racist tirade against immigrants to Canada from a certain region. He was so thick that I ultimately declared that a former girlfriend of mine, whose parents were from Pakistan but was herself born in Glasgow, was more "Scottish" than he was.

On the other hand you have the over reaching demands. In the Toronto area there have been two shootings by police, of black individuals. The group "Black Lives Matter" recently closed a major connecting highway with a couple of hundred protesters, for two hours, demanding the names of the involved officers and that they be charged.

Investigation in the first case, that occurred a few miles from my house, recently closed. It was found that the individual who was shot, while approaching police with a knife, was under the influence of a number of controlled substances (methamphetamine, Ecstacy, and marijuana). That he was waving a large kitchen knife and approaching police, who repeatedly warned him to drop it, was supported by a number of independent witnesses, including the driver of the car he in which he was riding. The driver indicated that he knew that his friend was going to get shot, so he slid down below window level in the car. The person in question was the subject of a warrant in another jurisdiction, had a previous criminal record, and notes remarked that he had attempted to disarm an officer during a previous interaction. The one negative finding by the SIU (Special Investigations Unit), who investigate officer-involved incidents, was that the knife should not have been treated like evidence in any other case (tagged, bagged, and secured), but should instead have been left on scene for SIU investigators.

The second case is currently being investigated, by the SIU, and there have as yet been no findings released.
 

billd91

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Investigation in the first case, that occurred a few miles from my house, recently closed. It was found that the individual who was shot, while approaching police with a knife, was under the influence of a number of controlled substances (methamphetamine, Ecstacy, and marijuana). That he was waving a large kitchen knife and approaching police, who repeatedly warned him to drop it, was supported by a number of independent witnesses, including the driver of the car he in which he was riding. The driver indicated that he knew that his friend was going to get shot, so he slid down below window level in the car. The person in question was the subject of a warrant in another jurisdiction, had a previous criminal record, and notes remarked that he had attempted to disarm an officer during a previous interaction. The one negative finding by the SIU (Special Investigations Unit), who investigate officer-involved incidents, was that the knife should not have been treated like evidence in any other case (tagged, bagged, and secured), but should instead have been left on scene for SIU investigators.

The difficulty with these situations and the Black Lives Matter campaign is that the police really are rarely held accountable for questionable or even criminal incidents they perpetrate. There are endless ways to rationalize why the police acted as they did. Would other cops find these actions reasonable? If so, they skate by. This happens so often, even when it shouldn't, that the immediate reaction is to distrust the police and any internal investigations into their conduct. And the number of well-publicized incidents of questionable behavior recently, one virtually coming on top of another, has gotten everyone extra-sensitized to them.

Where I live, we now have investigations into police shootings handled outside of the department. I don't know yet if it will make a difference in holding the police accountable or in building community trust for the impartiality of the process. But it's a step.
 

Umbran

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On the other hand you have the over reaching demands. In the Toronto area there have been two shootings by police, of black individuals. The group "Black Lives Matter" recently closed a major connecting highway with a couple of hundred protesters, for two hours, demanding the names of the involved officers and that they be charged.

I can't speak to certain aspects of the issue in Canada. But the over-reaching demands can be seen as a direct result of under-performance in the justice system. You say that they make over-reaching demands, but they have people *dying* as a result of police over-reach.

It has been demonstrated to many people's satisfaction that internal investigations have a tendency of working out as the mouse being in charge of the cheese - very much, "Who watches the watchmen?" The Prosecutors that would normally charge the police with wrongdoing often collaborate with and are dependent on the same police for cooperation on day-to-day cases, so they have a pretty clear conflict of interest.

However, by making a big stink about it, those concerned can draw media attention to the case, which drives everyone involved to play more, "by the book," and open to public scrutiny. If internal investigations worked properly, they'd not need to make outrageous demands to get something approaching justice. It will take some time of the system working well before folks will have trust in it.
 

Dannyalcatraz

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White priviledge is a thing. Check out crimingwhilewhite for some self-reporting. Crime stats in Ferguson showed a massive disparity in drug use (Caucasians>Blacks) and traffic stop searches for drugs (Blacks>Caucasians).

It's not just the US, either- the UK has similar issues:

http://www.release.org.uk/publicati...rities-policing-and-prosecution-drug-offences

Also, an abbreviated overview:
[video=youtube;fTcSVQJ2h8g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTcSVQJ2h8g&sns=em[/video]
 
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