Class variants: ranger, fighter, and others ("Class X" series)

I've been reworking some of the PHB classes over the past month, particularly the ranger and fighter, and thought I'd share my work for critique, adaptation, and the use of fellow gamers.

I'll attach them as PDF files in this post as I work on them (and each PDF states my design goals explicitly). Keep in mind these are works-in-progress and haven't been playtested yet.

Cheers!

And because a couple folks were asking about the big picture design of the sub-classes...

[SBLOCK=Creative origins for Fighter sub-classes]
Cavalier - for players wanting to play a classic knight, harkens back to AD&D Cavalier.
Guardian - for players wanting to play a "chosen one" hero, harkens to the 4e fighter and merges it with literary heroes like Taran the Wanderer & Richard Cypher.
Slayer - for players who want to play a fearsome monster hunter type with their own magic sword, has many influences from the OD&D Fighting-Man to video games to 3.5e Weapons of Legacy.
Veteran - for players who want to play a grizzled, tough-as-nails, "weapon specialization" fighter, has influences from BD&D Weapon Mastery.
Warlord - for players wanting to play a strategy-oriented leadership build, strongly influenced by the 4e warlord, with followers straight out of AD&D, and war horn borrowed from Dragon Age: Inquisition.[/SBLOCK]

[SBLOCK=Creative origins for Ranger sub-classes]
Borderlands Guard - for players wanting to play an AD&D style tough-guy ranger protecting civilized lands, and gaining humanoid followers and a stronghold.
Hinterlands Scout - for players wanting to be an explorer par excellence and get the drop on their enemies, inspired partly by the 3.5e scout class' skirmish feature and the 4e seeker's insane mobility.
Wildlands Warden - for players wanting to play a flexible spellcasting ranger bonded to a sacred site in the wilds, with a couple ideas adapted from the 4e warden class.
Wastelands Beastmaster - for players wanting to rock with their animal companion and generally be the animal-guy or animal-gal, with major inspiration from the 1982 Mark Singer flick, the wargs from Song of Ice and Fire, and adapted AD&D beast followers.[/SBLOCK]

Still reading, but from preliminary impressions, there are some real gems in here.

Your Animal Companion is a thing of simple elegant beauty. Absolutely love it!

The Wildcrafts, in general, are an intersting and effective mechanic and implementation.

A more detailed/individual critiques to come.

But, first impressions, some really great stuff here!

Ok. So, in general really very few notes. A couple of typos and such But nothing crazy.

I like Scouting a LOT. My only...concern, I suppose, since it's not really a question...is that a class feature like this might serve to undermine, if not remove entirely, roleplaying. Seems highly abusable for those so inclined.

"I scout. See here...It's on my sheet. What's within 100-150-200 of us? You gotta tell me. I can scout."

How would you see/advise using this and not having that happen?

I do very much like the structure you went for with the subclasses. Borderland Guards are the most civilized/closest to civilization, Scouts are the "in betweeners" and Wardens are the"waaay out there" guys. Cool idea and easy for integration in just about any setting.

I do like Warden's Wrath and Aspect of the Wild. Not sure what slots I need to vacate to add them. hahaha.

As already said, very much enjoy the Wildcrafts and Animal Companion, truly, thing of beauty.

Tracking is similarly simple and good.

I am not sure but I think Skirmish might be a bit under powered. Or it might be overpowered. I can't decide.

But all and all, really great start and I look forward to what goes into the various open slots.

steeldragons said:

Ok. So, in general really very few notes. A couple of typos and such But nothing crazy.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your observations and critique!

I like Scouting a LOT. My only...concern, I suppose, since it's not really a question...is that a class feature like this might serve to undermine, if not remove entirely, roleplaying. Seems highly abusable for those so inclined.

"I scout. See here...It's on my sheet. What's within 100-150-200 of us? You gotta tell me. I can scout."

How would you see/advise using this and not having that happen?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't try to prevent that at all. The Scouting feature only lets you detect non-hidden creatures and obvious terrain. Not anything and everything. The wording was specifically chosen. And it requires a short rest.

The interesting stuff comes after Scouting is used, when the ranger reports back to the rest of the party and they have to decide how to approach any creatures the ranger spotted. The Scouting feature fast-forwards thru the stuff where the ranger PC would be off doing his own thing and risk getting separated from the party or tangling with monsters on his own with a bad Stealth roll.

I do very much like the structure you went for with the subclasses. Borderland Guards are the most civilized/closest to civilization, Scouts are the "in betweeners" and Wardens are the"waaay out there" guys. Cool idea and easy for integration in just about any setting.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that was the idea, that it's a division of sub-classes that translates to any setting.

As already said, very much enjoy the Wildcrafts and Animal Companion, truly, thing of beauty.

Click to expand...

Thanks!

I am not sure but I think Skirmish might be a bit under powered. Or it might be overpowered. I can't decide.

Click to expand...

I had a hard time assessing it also, though I lean to thinking it's a bit underpowered for a class feature you get at 9th level. I'm also not sure it's iconic to the ranger, or if it would fit better as being unique to the scout sub-class.

Quickleaf said:

I had a hard time assessing it also, though I lean to thinking it's a bit underpowered for a class feature you get at 9th level. I'm also not sure it's iconic to the ranger, or if it would fit better as being unique to the scout sub-class.

Click to expand...

You could beef it up a bit, move it to being a Scout feature, and add in my [revised] Scrying Magic to the default! hahaha.

On serious note though, as you explain it, scouting makes a ton of sense and makes me like it even more. Might have to swipe that.

I also really like incorporating things like the animal companion, empathy, etc... [I'm inclined towards keeping the healing a builtin feature] as "player's choice" kind of add-ons, but how to do that without completely ripping off your Wildcrafts idea, I'm not entirely sure.

I'm also thinking [shhh. this is secret ] of doing away with beastmaster as a ranger archetype entirely. Keep my Guardian, Slayer and Warden. And make, either a Beastmaster Feat for any class to take or a [short] series of subclasses that could fall under a "Beastmaster" umbrella. I'm thinking a ranger/barbarian-ish/warrior one, a druid one (for the summoner druid crowd), and a wizard one (for the summoner mage crowd). Or a few subclasses and a feat for everyone else.

I am experimenting with an alternative to Studied Strike called "Overwatch" which grants the ranger a damage bonus with readied attacks, and allows them to make a ranged opportunity attack against a target of their Overwatch (or perhaps against a target within their Overwatch zone). Still brainstorming the concept.

steeldragons said:

You could beef it up a bit, move it to being a Scout feature, and add in my [revised] Scrying Magic to the default! hahaha.

Click to expand...

Maybe so! I really like the flavor you incorporated with Scrying Magic, and your mechanics are well executed! Would you mind? I might actually like to add Scrying Magic to my own Borderlands Guard archetype.

I am considering replacing the 9th level Skirmishing feature of the ranger with a Ranger's Aura (still working on the name) that grants Perception, Stealth, and possibly other bonuses to allies within 30 feet or so as the ranger levels. The "guide", "party lookout", and "ambush leader" are all pretty iconic roles for the ranger to take on. The other cool thing is that certain sub-classes can add new features to the Ranger's Aura.

On serious note though, as you explain it, scouting makes a ton of sense and makes me like it even more. Might have to swipe that.

I also really like incorporating things like the animal companion, empathy, etc... [I'm inclined towards keeping the healing a builtin feature] as "player's choice" kind of add-ons, but how to do that without completely ripping off your Wildcrafts idea, I'm not entirely sure.

Click to expand...

Btw, I am totally fine with you adapting stuff from my ranger! None of this is for profit, right? So feel free!

I will say this about my version: it's got a more "modern design" aesthetic than yours which is a bit more "old school." That's what I like about your ranger. I think in my desire to push the design edge with the ranger I may have lost some of that old school charm/feel. Implementing something like Wildcrafts (or borrowing the whole concept) definitely flies in the face of the old school vibe, but it made a lot of sense for the historically smorgasbord design of the ranger. Then again you are comfortable using re-named superiority dice, so maybe you're ok with mixing some modern in your old school!

I'm also thinking [shhh. this is secret ] of doing away with beastmaster as a ranger archetype entirely. Keep my Guardian, Slayer and Warden. And make, either a Beastmaster Feat for any class to take or a [short] series of subclasses that could fall under a "Beastmaster" umbrella. I'm thinking a ranger/barbarian-ish/warrior one, a druid one (for the summoner druid crowd), and a wizard one (for the summoner mage crowd). Or a few subclasses and a feat for everyone else.

Click to expand...

Having an animal companion has become an iconic class feature to the ranger, and I think there's enough players clamoring for the "Beastmaster" archetype to make it worthwhile. Not necessarily that it needs its own sub-class, there could be other ways. But I think your Beastmaster sub-class is a fine way of accommodating the archetype.

Btw, if you do decide to go with a single "Beastmaster" sub-class accessible by multiple classes, I've experimented with that approach with my Ship's Mage & Swashbuckler sub-classes for my Spell & Crossbones campaign (link in sig).

I wouldn't mind at all. Help yourself!

I just added my re-tooling of the fighter class. A little more polished, but still a work-in-progress. Critiques and comments are always welcome

[SBLOCK=Goals re-designing the fighter]
This is my work-in-progress revision of the 5e fighter class, with the following goals:

Provide greater differentiation of fighting styles according to weapon type, granting active talents the character can use. This echoes the idea of “weapon mastery” and merges it with a version of 4e powers free from the At-Will/Encounter/Daily structure.

Encourage a play style that focuses on achieving small thematic milestones within (and out of) combat in order to recharge talents.

Get rid of innate healing, instead relying on parrying and temporary hit points to keep the fighter from falling.

Reincorporate old school class features like stronghold and henchmen, but have them be optional.

As a followup on the above point, give the fighter features that are useful outside of combat. Mostly these will be housed within the sub-classes and emphasize their social interaction.

While the class is compatible with the PHB fighter sub-classes, new sub-classes are presented here: Cavalier, Guardian, Slayer, Veteran, and Warlord.[/SBLOCK]

First thing that jumps out, if the parry roll fails, what is the rationale for why the fighter doesn't lose their reaction.

They are using their reaction to try to parry...they try...they fail...they have not used their reaction? It doesn't make sense...to me/my sensibility.

My World of Orea system is using something very similar to your "Talents." The game uses themes (the Warrior themes are how the fighters and other martial/"warrior" classes get their fighting style [in 5e terms] Archer, Heavy Weapon Expert, Mounted Expert, etc... Within each theme, then, is a selection of 5 "maneuvers", a la, cleave, whirlwind, quick shot, deflect, etc... and Parry, actually. Several themes have access to parry. But the idea of separating out Parry as its own feature is an interesting one.

More after a more thorough read. Looking forward to your subclasses here.

Thanks for your comments!

steeldragons said:

First thing that jumps out, if the parry roll fails, what is the rationale for why the fighter doesn't lose their reaction.

They are using their reaction to try to parry...they try...they fail...they have not used their reaction? It doesn't make sense...to me/my sensibility.

Click to expand...

Hmm, you are right, it doesn't make sense narratively. I was worried about that being to punitive, but it is an at-will ability (even if reactions are 1/round), so that kind of makes up for it.

My World of Orea system is using something very similar to your "Talents." The game uses themes (the Warrior themes are how the fighters and other martial/"warrior" classes get their fighting style [in 5e terms] Archer, Heavy Weapon Expert, Mounted Expert, etc... Within each theme, then, is a selection of 5 "maneuvers", a la, cleave, whirlwind, quick shot, deflect, etc... and Parry, actually. Several themes have access to parry. But the idea of separating out Parry as its own feature is an interesting one.

Click to expand...

Haha, given the parallels in our game design aesthetics/philosophy, I am not surprised!

More after a more thorough read. Looking forward to your subclasses here.

Click to expand...

Here's my quick one-liner about each sub-class and why I picked it:

Cavalier - for players wanting to play a classic knight, harkens back to AD&D Cavalier.
Guardian - for players wanting to play a "chosen one" hero, harkens to the 4e fighter and merges it with literary heroes like Taran the Wanderer & Richard Cypher.
Slayer - for players who want to play a fearsome monster hunter type with their own magic sword, has many influences from the OD&D Fighting-Man to video games to 3.5e Weapons of Legacy.
Veteran - for players who want to play a grizzled, tough-as-nails, "weapon specialization" fighter, has influences from BD&D Weapon Mastery.
Warlord - for players wanting to play a strategy-oriented leadership build, strongly influenced by the 4e warlord, with followers straight out of AD&D, and war horn borrowed from Dragon Age: Inquisition.