D&D 4E 4e ask a simple question, get a simple answer

wasteomana · Nov 29, 2015

I'll go against Zathris on the idea that making a plot device that revolves around the Dwarven Language is a bad idea if you are DMing for a group of people who don't have that language on the list. Language as a plot device is something I've used and seen used pretty extensively. I've only seen it used wrong when it is a dead-end for the players "Oh, well nobody speaks the language of the quest giver, so session over". It should be something the players can overcome and have to deal with.

As far as Traveler's Insight is concerned, consider talking with your DM about it. The DM should be on the same page as you regarding how passive insight works before you build something that is going to have a crazy passive insight. With Traveller's Insight it is not hard to get your passive to beat Hard DC by a lot which should mean its nearly impossible to lie to you and standing illusions should melt before your eyes. If the DM is not on that page that could get annoying for both of you.

That being said if you are trying to get more languages you should try for things that allow you to pick Forgotten Realms languages. A race with an extra language that you can take as Thayan, or background in a language not in the PHB. The Scholar ability only gives you the languages in the PHB. Most races start off with Common + one at minimum which means you are getting 8 from Scholar. Not that it is terrible to pick up 8 languages, but there are a ton of other languages that exist in the game. All that being said, talk to your DM about what languages exist in their world. I've seen several DMs that make more or less languages a thing.

Tussin · Nov 29, 2015

with Deva i can pick two languages from the non Scholar ones i get access to.

with this feat can i select from the Forgotten Realm Languages at all? in the builder i only see the regular ones pop up... is that right or can it be houseruled?

Mark of Scribing [Dragonmark]

Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose four languages. You can speak, read, and write those languages fluently. When you gain a level, you can retrain one of these languages instead of a feat, a power, or a skill.
You gain a +2 bonus to Diplomacy checks.
You can master and perform rituals as if you had the Ritual Caster feat. Furthermore, you can create scrolls in half the normal time (that is, the same amount of time it takes create a ritual book).

this would also work well as a background.

Dragon Coast - Campaign

Benefit: You can reroll any Insight check, but you must keep the second result, even if it is worse.
You also gain one additional language of your choice.

Zathris · Nov 30, 2015

masteraleph said:
FWIW, Zathris is slightly off on Supernal- Supernal can be spoken so that anyone understands it by immortals, but that doesn't mean they can understand everyone. But yes, Devas who speak Supernal can make everyone understand, even if they can't get all the responses.

You have that wrong, RC p68 has the rules.
Immortals that speak Supernal can understand speech and writing in any language. You can hear, but you can't respond.

Only Gods and Angels (and Devas with Remembered Mother Tongue) can speak so that anyone with a language can understand them.

Zathris · Nov 30, 2015

[MENTION=24488]was[/MENTION]teofmana: My main issues comes from the resource expenditure. When a Deva with a single feat in Paragon outright trumps what you can do, it significantly diminishes what you were doing. Themes should be worth more than Feats. You already mention the problems with Travelers Insight.

Being a Scholar only requires you to have a good Int and a couple incidental bonuses, the rest is just roleplay.

Tussin said:
with Deva i can pick two languages from the non Scholar ones i get access to.

with this feat can i select from the Forgotten Realm Languages at all? in the builder i only see the regular ones pop up... is that right or can it be houseruled?

Mark of Scribing [Dragonmark]

Heroic Tier
Benefit: Choose four languages. You can speak, read, and write those languages fluently. When you gain a level, you can retrain one of these languages instead of a feat, a power, or a skill.
You gain a +2 bonus to Diplomacy checks.
You can master and perform rituals as if you had the Ritual Caster feat. Furthermore, you can create scrolls in half the normal time (that is, the same amount of time it takes create a ritual book).

this would also work well as a background.

Dragon Coast - Campaign

Benefit: You can reroll any Insight check, but you must keep the second result, even if it is worse.
You also gain one additional language of your choice.

My personal opinion when it comes to the absurd number of Forgotten Realms languages is that only unique scripts count toward Travelers Insight, but that's obviously not RAW.

The reason Mark of Scribing doesn't let you select FR languages is that it's a specifically Dark Sun feat. If you're playing in FR, you should ask your DM if you can take it, if you can take it then there's no reason you can't select the FR languages.

Tussin · Nov 30, 2015

if i went Linguist instead of Mark of Scribing, would that work as an alternative?

and is there a list somewhere showing a language/script list so i can pick and choose so i can maximize my Traveler's Insight feat bonus for my unique script count? so when i pick new languages with Linguist it will benefit me the most

wasteomana · Nov 30, 2015

Tussin, you either missed the point or ignored it completely. What you are doing is something you should run by your DM first. The only way to keep yourself from getting really perturbed by your DM or vice versa is to first make sure this is something your DM will go for and let you really shine with. Because if you play in a game where lying and trickery on commonplace, that might not fit with it or be incredibly strong. If you play in a game where the DM isn't going to let you auto-lie-detector everything, that's not going to fit either.

Also the Marks are Eberron specific not Dark Sun or Forgotten Realms.

Step 1 needs to be talk with DM.
Step 2 needs to be Check your passive Insight with only scholar and Traveler's Insight vs Hard DC Insight (see how many levels above you that will be an auto-pass)
Step 3 needs to be adjusting to fit.

None of these will involve Linguist as it is a waste of resources. Traveler's Insight might be a waste of resources if you don't see a use for it in the campaign (and your DM isn't going to just shut you down). Scholar itself isn't a great theme, but it isn't terrible. Just keep in mind when you are building what you are getting out of it.

Tussin · Dec 1, 2015

later down the road i could use talents to pickup remaining languages. i know it will be fine with my DM he has thrown in a few npcs that speak different languages and where it could have helped to translate and communicate.

i don't think insight is as powerful as having a high bluff/diplomacy/intimidate score. my character will have many glaring weaknesses for one or two things i specialize in, the trade offs are there.

thank you for all the rulings and help, it will help me make corrections as i finalize my touches now.

i'm also curious how Secret Language correlates from this background? if i select it as my option

Occupation - Thug

Type: Occupation
Campaign Setting: General
You were a thug, such as an enforcer, a tough, or a bodyguard. Did you work for anyone? If so, who? What sorts of missions did you undertake? Were you feared in your community? Or did you stand up for those who were too weak to protect themselves? Why did you leave? Did you leave behind any enemies?
Associated Skills: Athletics, Intimidate
Associated Languages: Secret Language

is this Secret Language different from this Unseelie Agent character theme?

Unseelie Agent Level 5 Feature (5th level): You can speak, read, and write the secret language of the Unseelie fey. This language can be used to communicate securely with others of your ilk.

are these two different?

Zathris · Dec 1, 2015

darkbard · Dec 6, 2015

Perhaps not as simple a question as could be, but will Zathris finish the incipient "Unlocking the Warlock" reboot of Duelist's Warlock guide here on ENWorld?

masteraleph · Dec 7, 2015

Putting together an Eladrin Swordmage|Warlock for a limited adventure- starting (and probably ending) at level 13, probably with no extended rests, about 4 sessions or so.

Here's the question:

10/17/10/15+2/8/13+2 starting array (11/20/11/20/9/16 now), Star and Infernal as pacts, with Tyrannical Thread as a daily and probably Mordant Rains of Dis as an Encounter, or 10/13/10/17+2/8/15+2 or 10/13/10/15+2/8/17+2 starting array (14 in CON and a 20 and a 22 in INT/CHA- not sure which one to go with) and Touch of Command as an Encounter and Command Insanity as Daily?