Clockwerk66
First Post
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Brief cantrip review for everyone!
Cantrips sorted in alphabetical order, classes getting them marked after the name. I considered putting in a star system of some kind. I did not, but I thought about it.
But instead, by popular demand, some colors! And they are judged against all other cantrips, without any consideration for if your class even has access to superior alternatives.
Red: Don’t take this, there is always something better. Either bad or outclassed
Purple: Might be useful sometimes, but there are almost always better options
Black: Good enough
Blue: Good choice and might be the best depending on different factors.
Sky Blue: Almost always one of the best choices
Disclaimer: For heaven's sake, don't take this seriously. They're cantrips, they're your replacement for plinking with a crossbow, on the turns where you just cannot be bothered to cast Wish or Gate or whatever. With that said, on with the show!
Acid Splash (sor wiz) - Hits two adjacent targets, and is save-based so can be used in melee as well. Could be a useful finisher against minions, because dropping two half-dead goblins at once is so liberating. I've cautiously marked this up a little, provided your party has some other form of AoE to soften up groups of minions.
Blade Ward (bar sor war wiz) - The resistance to physical damage might be useful for surviving as a lv7 Eldritch Knight (who get to cast cantrip + make a regular attack), which is always endearing, like a blind puppy. Or instead of learning this, you could just use your action to Dodge. Either way, you're just delaying the inevitable, I suggest rather killing the enemy now.
Chill Touch (sor war wiz) - You can use this to disadvantage an undead hitting you, but only you. You'd think this would be under the divine classes, with its specialized focus, but I guess arcanists need to beat back their undead experiments gone awry, too. That effect still comes up more often than its other benefit of preventing the target from regaining HP for a turn (though when that comes up, oh boy, that troll is gonna be sorry).
Dancing Lights (bar sor wiz) - You can send these separate light ahead, or you could just throw a torch/object with Light over there, without blowing your Concentration slot on it. I bet this exists just because they thought giving Light to Drow as racial cantrip would feel weird. That said, people say it's useful for not revealing your position, so if you're a solo Rogue that happened to pick one of the only races in the whole DnD world without Darkvision, and you're not someone who might want to run any other kind of Concentration buffs ever, this might be useful to you.
Druidcraft (dru) - You're the weatherman, saving you from making one specific kind of a nature/survival check. Such power you wield. And let's not forget about not needing a tinderbox around, oooh.
Eldritch Blast (war) - Multihitting cantrip, which would be great in itself, but then 2 levels of Warlock buffs every hit with Chamod and no-save 10ft knockback. Just utterly wonderful. This is how the devils and fey spirits get you, they promise you can trigger your sources of extra damage how many times, and from range.
Fire Bolt (sor wiz) - You do only damage, and cannot even set fire to carried items, yawn. However, it's been pointed out to me that since fire is the only viable path for Sorcerers currently, and I do like Sorcerers a whole lot, this is getting to move up from red a little, because they can actually add a static mod to the damage. And okay, evocation specialist WIzards can do that too, but who cares about Wizards.
Friends (bar sor war wiz) - Every arcane caster gets this, because who doesn't like burning bridges everywhere they go? Moral considerations of mindrape aside, this is a huge utility buff for when you absolutely need to convince someone, can do it in under a minute and don't care if they're hostile after. Which is actually quite limiting, so I like it - takes some thought when to apply it.
Guidance (cle dru) - Right, then we get to the complete opposite of the above. This takes no thought, it's just a constant +1d4 bonus to anything one person might ever do, provided you keep touching them (or yourself) every minute. That's right, we didn't even get out of cantrips before this edition discarded its notion of no pointless minimodifiers or required features. This is the most broken thing on here, grab it and abuse it (until your GM bans it or just raises all DCs by 5).
Light (bar cle sor wiz) - When you want the high-tech version of a torch. Because it's hands-free, you see. There's literally nothing to say here, especially when 99% of races and monsters have darkvision anyways. I remember when this was a 1st-level spell and you could use it to blind people...
Mage Hand (bar sor war wiz) - Telekinesis at will! Because who takes off their pants by hand? Not this lot, that's for sure!
Mending (bar cle dru sor wiz) - This is your crafting skill now. Who needs a smith, they take longer than a minute to fix a broken axle, anyway. No immeadiate adventurer usage, just jumpstarting the logistics of the world ahead by quite a bit - ongoing wars never need equipment to be replenished, just have even one minister/minstrel/sage around, and they can fix, oh, 1 minute per item, 500-1000 pieces of **** every day.
Message (bar sor wiz) - You have a walkie-talkie, with the limit that the other half must be on a person that you must basically see. So you could just say it to them in the regular fashion, like people do. Because you can adjust the volume of your speech, I hope.
Minor Illusion (bar mon sor war wiz) - Just magnificent. Set up alarms on a timer, conjure up owlbears around corners for lulz, create a barrel to give you concealment... And thanks to the wording, the opponent has to hit it with something (so, impossible to do to a loud noise next to their ear?) or they have to spend an action on just getting a save to disbelieve... after which you can just recast it? Also, because it's not an attack and has no verbal components, it does not break stealth. The only thing with more dickishness potential than this, is Arcane Lock.
Poison Spray (dru sor war wiz) - Highest single-target damage cantrip! With a 10ft range! Wait, that last part is not positive. Oh well, it's a save, so practically a reach weapon. It still only does damage, which I don't find too exciting without static mods to add to it.
Prestidigitation (bar sor war wiz) - This is why high elves are always so clean. Also, why their drinks are always the right temperature. And why humans who annoy them keep walking around in soiled trousers (no save, but at least it requires them to point and shout from 10ft away). If you had to be in this kind of a society for 100 years, you'd want to take a break amidst the lesser races, too. It exists so you can imagine your imaginary character feeling better.
Produce Flame (dru) - The bastard child of Light and Firebolt! Its usefulness depends entirely on whether or not it occupies your hand that it rests in, and the rules remain ambiguous on the matter, so let's act like your fist just gets surrounded by fire and you can flick it from behind your shield. And it can presumably start fires, unlike its parental units! Most of the time that feature is pointless enough, and the damage low enough, that you should seriously consider Wildshaping into a monkey and flinging poop instead.
Ray of Frost (sor wiz) - Fun damage+control against a single target, because it slows them down, enabling the group to just kite them with ranged attacks. Because there's nothing more heroic than running circles around an annoyed melee boss.
Resistance (cle dru) - Buff a saving throw in the next minute. Sounds great, but just a minute? Having to know it's coming makes this very situational, but since you can choose to use it after the save roll, it deserves consideration. Like, everyone casts it on themselves before kicking the enchantress boss's doors in, you may walk out slightly less perturbed.
Sacred Flame (cle) - Orbital lazers from the gods that ignore cover, for when you absolutely must deal that 1d8 of tickling to a nonbeliever who thinks his bush is sooooo fine. Okay, you can also use it to shoot behind walls, which is kind of impressive.
Shillelagh (dru) - As a bonus action, buff your club/quarterstaff to use your spellcasting stat for attacks and do d8 damage. Here just so Druids can dump their physical stats even harder, and for Tome Warlocks to copy it and try to make a meleelock work, when they could just Eldritch Blast instead. It gets a high rating because I like shouting shillelagh, pronouncing it wrong in a different way each time.
Shocking Grasp (sor wiz) - If someone comes into melee range, zap them to remove their reaction (with an advantage if their armor is metal, forcing the GM to consider every thug's personal life and wardrobe choices). While the GM-annoying part is the main attraction here, I guess this could also be interesting if you're a wussy caster wanting to run away, or a lv7+ Eldritch Knight wanting to run past an opponent so they can stab a caster behind them.
Spare the Dying (cle) - Rendering the Medicine skill even more pointless, stabilize at a touch. Frankly, I rather expected this would kill the target and send them to the Raven Queen. But it is slightly more useful this way, because who ever heard of a Cleric making that Wis-based DC10 check in the regular fashion.
Thaumaturgy (cle) - Poltergeist effects on command! Of course, you have to shout to cast this, so it's kind of obvious who's really causing it. It's here, if you need to make an impression on a congregation and they're really, really gullible. Or if you just really like having all-white eyes. We don't judge, we even let elves in.
Thorn Whip (dru) - A positional tool, that brings the target 10ft closer to you. Now, this may sound useful, but with just a 30ft range, it ends up requiring kind of specific situations... I guess, if you could lure one of their guys into a shouting match at the opposite edge of the pit between you two, you could yank them down there. Melee spell attack, though, so you can use it even in melee, to pull people into your lap hard?
True Strike (bar sor war wiz) - A great tool if you're stealthy, as you can ensure advantage on your first... wait a second, if you're in stealth, you already have advantage on your first attack! guess that means this one is useful if you're an Eldritch Knight 7+ with some Rogue levels, so you can cast and stab... oh come on, it says you only get the advantage on your first attack on the next turn? So you'd be giving up an attack this turn in order to maybe do something if your concentration doesn't break... oh, just hit them, please.
Vicious Mockery (bar) - Finally, a cantrip that doesn't require dancing around with a feather boa in your hand! it only takes a verbal command, to cause damage and give the target disadv on their next attack. This is great, for when you want to tank against a non-caster enemy, or feel like helping your party out (but not enough to spend actual spell slots on it).
Originally posted by Jay_Ibero_911:
Originally posted by mellored:
True strike is best for setting up a big attack spell, like disintigrate. Otherwise, multi-attack.
And blade ward is usually better then dodge (depending on hit %). It also stacks with other sources of disavantage.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
On the other hand, Dodge works against elemental attacks as well, not just weapons. It can stack, sure, but situations where you'd be trying to just survive one more turn seem quite rare - it's not like you can even lockdown enemies as a warrior this edition, so you cannot use it for tanking (without physically blocking the 5ft-wide passageway).
Originally posted by mellored:
I use it when i have a bless (or other good concentration spell) up, and am sitting in a 5' doorway, with my ranged party behind me.
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Originally posted by mellored:
Hmm... there doesn't seem to be many attack spells besides cantrips.
Originally posted by PetardoMauriti:
You could rate it with colors (charop palette) or something. I know it depends on the class, but presume that it is used by the right class.
Originally posted by Litania84it:
minor illusion only creates sounds and objects, no creatures. Sadly no owlbear.
They had to give silent image a reason to exist.
Still, many DMs forget, so you can get away with a lot
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Originally posted by Leugren:
Thanks for this. It was a fun read, and I agree with just about everything you say. I second the motion for you to add some color rankings.
Originally posted by Leugren:
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Originally posted by MykeSchultz:
How they made guidance somewhat surprises me; I too hoped that they wouldn't make any game element that was pretty much auto-pick, or make some things way better than others. I surely thought that this would not be the case in this edition (albeit, I had only hope to rely on), but now that a lot of character ops threads are spawning, when I look at the game elements its starting to look much like the last edition in this regard (that said, there are a lot more variables now that can affect ratings). I suppose that was too much to ask for though? Of course, the dm can fix whatever. But I don't like going "down that road" (I find it a slippery-slope that usually ends in/spells disaster). And the argument from fun doesn't fly with me either, given I find balance to be the most fun.
Originally posted by Undrhil:
Produce Flame *can* be used to set fires. It can also be used to attack. So, it is an upgrade to Light. Please read the cantrips fully before making this kind of list.
Originally posted by Mind_Flayer_Monk:
Chill Touch's ability to stop hit point gain is devastating with some our level 5+ challenges. Especially since a sorcerer can easily put out 3 chill touchs for a couple of sorcery points (quickened and twin spell). TPKed the party with Bugbears and an evil sorcerer. Party then picked it up and walked all over a bunch of trolls.
Originally posted by pukunui:
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Originally posted by Ashrym:
What makes it useful regardless of other abilities is that it stacks, it's pretty much always available, and the game does us ability checks as a basic mechanic. As far as cantrips go, it's a pretty good choice.
Originally posted by Yunru:
On Guidance: Initiative is a Dexterity check.
Originally posted by Hailrobonia:
*Rant on
I hate prestidigitation.
It should be banned for anyone who has not played D&D for at least a year. While I fully support thinking outside the box and creativity, I see so many new players taking this spell and trying to use it for EVERYTHING. Especially in combat. "I use prestidigitation to make a skull appear to scare away the goblin... I use prestidigitation to make the sound of a vampire to force the elf to surrender... I use prestidigitation to turn the cultist's scimitar into a baguette..." Even experienced players try to do this as well, but typically they don't do it while in combat.
I swear nobody reads the spell. No, you can't do just about anything that people try to do with the spell. In my reading you can't even use it to clean yourself unless you happen to be only one foot tall. You can't use it to replace your intimidate/deception/persuasion check. It only has a 10' range.
I get it. Not everyone wants to play a typical combat character. But I have been in so many games where there you are, fighting against a gang of bandits, and Sasha the Sorceress, instead of blasting enemies, decides to make her hair pretty so that she can charm the bandit leader. I suppose the best way to deal with this would be to treat it as a "help" attempt, so that your distraction gives the next attack on the target advantage.
*Rant off.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
First post now comes in colors, so we can argue in a new way!
I could have compared the cantrips against other options within that class, but Dancing Lights would still suck, so I just compared them to all others.
Originally posted by Jamwes:
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
It stacks with everything ever, and you can have it affect the majority of non-combat rolls (and at least the Initiative roll of the next combat). This is why it's rated good.
Originally posted by Yunru:
That and it works on initiative. Seriously, can't stress that enough. Very few things boost init and this is one of them.
Originally posted by Demosthenes2054:
Personally I'd prefer a list that was a bit more objective. I feel that the OP was to busy focusing on being clever and snarky to give some of these spells a fair shot. Though it did make for an entertaining read I really don't find the list very useful.
I do agree that True Strike is bad though not for any reason outlined by the OP. Requiring concentration on a spell that lasts a single turn?
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Originally posted by Fralex:
Poison Spray isn't a ranged attack, it's a Constitution save.
Originally posted by Litania84it:
Originally posted by Squad:
Originally posted by Thank_Dog:
Acid Splash is awesome. Any smart player will try to pick off all the weaker enemies first, especially in an edition like this one where even "weaker" enemies can still do decent damage and screw you up hardcore in large numbers.
I also think that Friends is highly underrated. I've used it to excellent effect in many situations.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Originally posted by Yunru:
Bless is also a 1st level spell, so not something you're going to be maintaining on your characters.
Brief cantrip review for everyone!
Cantrips sorted in alphabetical order, classes getting them marked after the name. I considered putting in a star system of some kind. I did not, but I thought about it.
But instead, by popular demand, some colors! And they are judged against all other cantrips, without any consideration for if your class even has access to superior alternatives.
Red: Don’t take this, there is always something better. Either bad or outclassed
Purple: Might be useful sometimes, but there are almost always better options
Black: Good enough
Blue: Good choice and might be the best depending on different factors.
Sky Blue: Almost always one of the best choices
Disclaimer: For heaven's sake, don't take this seriously. They're cantrips, they're your replacement for plinking with a crossbow, on the turns where you just cannot be bothered to cast Wish or Gate or whatever. With that said, on with the show!
Acid Splash (sor wiz) - Hits two adjacent targets, and is save-based so can be used in melee as well. Could be a useful finisher against minions, because dropping two half-dead goblins at once is so liberating. I've cautiously marked this up a little, provided your party has some other form of AoE to soften up groups of minions.
Blade Ward (bar sor war wiz) - The resistance to physical damage might be useful for surviving as a lv7 Eldritch Knight (who get to cast cantrip + make a regular attack), which is always endearing, like a blind puppy. Or instead of learning this, you could just use your action to Dodge. Either way, you're just delaying the inevitable, I suggest rather killing the enemy now.
Chill Touch (sor war wiz) - You can use this to disadvantage an undead hitting you, but only you. You'd think this would be under the divine classes, with its specialized focus, but I guess arcanists need to beat back their undead experiments gone awry, too. That effect still comes up more often than its other benefit of preventing the target from regaining HP for a turn (though when that comes up, oh boy, that troll is gonna be sorry).
Dancing Lights (bar sor wiz) - You can send these separate light ahead, or you could just throw a torch/object with Light over there, without blowing your Concentration slot on it. I bet this exists just because they thought giving Light to Drow as racial cantrip would feel weird. That said, people say it's useful for not revealing your position, so if you're a solo Rogue that happened to pick one of the only races in the whole DnD world without Darkvision, and you're not someone who might want to run any other kind of Concentration buffs ever, this might be useful to you.
Druidcraft (dru) - You're the weatherman, saving you from making one specific kind of a nature/survival check. Such power you wield. And let's not forget about not needing a tinderbox around, oooh.
Eldritch Blast (war) - Multihitting cantrip, which would be great in itself, but then 2 levels of Warlock buffs every hit with Chamod and no-save 10ft knockback. Just utterly wonderful. This is how the devils and fey spirits get you, they promise you can trigger your sources of extra damage how many times, and from range.
Fire Bolt (sor wiz) - You do only damage, and cannot even set fire to carried items, yawn. However, it's been pointed out to me that since fire is the only viable path for Sorcerers currently, and I do like Sorcerers a whole lot, this is getting to move up from red a little, because they can actually add a static mod to the damage. And okay, evocation specialist WIzards can do that too, but who cares about Wizards.
Friends (bar sor war wiz) - Every arcane caster gets this, because who doesn't like burning bridges everywhere they go? Moral considerations of mindrape aside, this is a huge utility buff for when you absolutely need to convince someone, can do it in under a minute and don't care if they're hostile after. Which is actually quite limiting, so I like it - takes some thought when to apply it.
Guidance (cle dru) - Right, then we get to the complete opposite of the above. This takes no thought, it's just a constant +1d4 bonus to anything one person might ever do, provided you keep touching them (or yourself) every minute. That's right, we didn't even get out of cantrips before this edition discarded its notion of no pointless minimodifiers or required features. This is the most broken thing on here, grab it and abuse it (until your GM bans it or just raises all DCs by 5).
Light (bar cle sor wiz) - When you want the high-tech version of a torch. Because it's hands-free, you see. There's literally nothing to say here, especially when 99% of races and monsters have darkvision anyways. I remember when this was a 1st-level spell and you could use it to blind people...
Mage Hand (bar sor war wiz) - Telekinesis at will! Because who takes off their pants by hand? Not this lot, that's for sure!
Mending (bar cle dru sor wiz) - This is your crafting skill now. Who needs a smith, they take longer than a minute to fix a broken axle, anyway. No immeadiate adventurer usage, just jumpstarting the logistics of the world ahead by quite a bit - ongoing wars never need equipment to be replenished, just have even one minister/minstrel/sage around, and they can fix, oh, 1 minute per item, 500-1000 pieces of **** every day.
Message (bar sor wiz) - You have a walkie-talkie, with the limit that the other half must be on a person that you must basically see. So you could just say it to them in the regular fashion, like people do. Because you can adjust the volume of your speech, I hope.
Minor Illusion (bar mon sor war wiz) - Just magnificent. Set up alarms on a timer, conjure up owlbears around corners for lulz, create a barrel to give you concealment... And thanks to the wording, the opponent has to hit it with something (so, impossible to do to a loud noise next to their ear?) or they have to spend an action on just getting a save to disbelieve... after which you can just recast it? Also, because it's not an attack and has no verbal components, it does not break stealth. The only thing with more dickishness potential than this, is Arcane Lock.
Poison Spray (dru sor war wiz) - Highest single-target damage cantrip! With a 10ft range! Wait, that last part is not positive. Oh well, it's a save, so practically a reach weapon. It still only does damage, which I don't find too exciting without static mods to add to it.
Prestidigitation (bar sor war wiz) - This is why high elves are always so clean. Also, why their drinks are always the right temperature. And why humans who annoy them keep walking around in soiled trousers (no save, but at least it requires them to point and shout from 10ft away). If you had to be in this kind of a society for 100 years, you'd want to take a break amidst the lesser races, too. It exists so you can imagine your imaginary character feeling better.
Produce Flame (dru) - The bastard child of Light and Firebolt! Its usefulness depends entirely on whether or not it occupies your hand that it rests in, and the rules remain ambiguous on the matter, so let's act like your fist just gets surrounded by fire and you can flick it from behind your shield. And it can presumably start fires, unlike its parental units! Most of the time that feature is pointless enough, and the damage low enough, that you should seriously consider Wildshaping into a monkey and flinging poop instead.
Ray of Frost (sor wiz) - Fun damage+control against a single target, because it slows them down, enabling the group to just kite them with ranged attacks. Because there's nothing more heroic than running circles around an annoyed melee boss.
Resistance (cle dru) - Buff a saving throw in the next minute. Sounds great, but just a minute? Having to know it's coming makes this very situational, but since you can choose to use it after the save roll, it deserves consideration. Like, everyone casts it on themselves before kicking the enchantress boss's doors in, you may walk out slightly less perturbed.
Sacred Flame (cle) - Orbital lazers from the gods that ignore cover, for when you absolutely must deal that 1d8 of tickling to a nonbeliever who thinks his bush is sooooo fine. Okay, you can also use it to shoot behind walls, which is kind of impressive.
Shillelagh (dru) - As a bonus action, buff your club/quarterstaff to use your spellcasting stat for attacks and do d8 damage. Here just so Druids can dump their physical stats even harder, and for Tome Warlocks to copy it and try to make a meleelock work, when they could just Eldritch Blast instead. It gets a high rating because I like shouting shillelagh, pronouncing it wrong in a different way each time.
Shocking Grasp (sor wiz) - If someone comes into melee range, zap them to remove their reaction (with an advantage if their armor is metal, forcing the GM to consider every thug's personal life and wardrobe choices). While the GM-annoying part is the main attraction here, I guess this could also be interesting if you're a wussy caster wanting to run away, or a lv7+ Eldritch Knight wanting to run past an opponent so they can stab a caster behind them.
Spare the Dying (cle) - Rendering the Medicine skill even more pointless, stabilize at a touch. Frankly, I rather expected this would kill the target and send them to the Raven Queen. But it is slightly more useful this way, because who ever heard of a Cleric making that Wis-based DC10 check in the regular fashion.
Thaumaturgy (cle) - Poltergeist effects on command! Of course, you have to shout to cast this, so it's kind of obvious who's really causing it. It's here, if you need to make an impression on a congregation and they're really, really gullible. Or if you just really like having all-white eyes. We don't judge, we even let elves in.
Thorn Whip (dru) - A positional tool, that brings the target 10ft closer to you. Now, this may sound useful, but with just a 30ft range, it ends up requiring kind of specific situations... I guess, if you could lure one of their guys into a shouting match at the opposite edge of the pit between you two, you could yank them down there. Melee spell attack, though, so you can use it even in melee, to pull people into your lap hard?
True Strike (bar sor war wiz) - A great tool if you're stealthy, as you can ensure advantage on your first... wait a second, if you're in stealth, you already have advantage on your first attack! guess that means this one is useful if you're an Eldritch Knight 7+ with some Rogue levels, so you can cast and stab... oh come on, it says you only get the advantage on your first attack on the next turn? So you'd be giving up an attack this turn in order to maybe do something if your concentration doesn't break... oh, just hit them, please.
Vicious Mockery (bar) - Finally, a cantrip that doesn't require dancing around with a feather boa in your hand! it only takes a verbal command, to cause damage and give the target disadv on their next attack. This is great, for when you want to tank against a non-caster enemy, or feel like helping your party out (but not enough to spend actual spell slots on it).
Originally posted by Jay_Ibero_911:
Not as good as you think. Empowered evocation only adds extra damage to EVOCATION spells. Acid splash is a CONJURATION. Potent Cantrip would apply so they still take half damage on a save though.
Originally posted by mellored:
True strike is best for setting up a big attack spell, like disintigrate. Otherwise, multi-attack.
And blade ward is usually better then dodge (depending on hit %). It also stacks with other sources of disavantage.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Yowch, knew i was missing something. Okay, that's weaksauce, edited the original post.
On the other hand, Dodge works against elemental attacks as well, not just weapons. It can stack, sure, but situations where you'd be trying to just survive one more turn seem quite rare - it's not like you can even lockdown enemies as a warrior this edition, so you cannot use it for tanking (without physically blocking the 5ft-wide passageway).
Originally posted by mellored:
I rarely use it to survive "just one turn".
I use it when i have a bless (or other good concentration spell) up, and am sitting in a 5' doorway, with my ranged party behind me.
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Disintegrate doesn't use an attack roll. It used a DEX save.
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Dodge is countered by advantage and doesn't stack with other forms of disadvantage if they exist already, such as from the blur spell. This issue I have with blade ward is the action cost but at least the advantage it gives isn't taken away by the help action like dodge can. I can blade ward and combine swift spells so it's a bit niche, and in the case of valor bards with battlemagic it might see a bit more use at times.
Originally posted by mellored:
Contagion or lighting arrow then.
Hmm... there doesn't seem to be many attack spells besides cantrips.
Originally posted by PetardoMauriti:
You could rate it with colors (charop palette) or something. I know it depends on the class, but presume that it is used by the right class.
Originally posted by Litania84it:
minor illusion only creates sounds and objects, no creatures. Sadly no owlbear.
They had to give silent image a reason to exist.
Still, many DMs forget, so you can get away with a lot
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Minor image was cut back a lot from the playtest but still decent.Litania84it wrote:minor illusion only creates sounds and objects, no creatures. Sadly no owlbear.
They had to give silent image a reason to exist.
Still, many DMs forget, so you can get away with a lot
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Yes, you create the image of an owlbear.
Originally posted by Leugren:
Thanks for this. It was a fun read, and I agree with just about everything you say. I second the motion for you to add some color rankings.
Originally posted by Leugren:
Sadly, it would have to be a pretty tiny owlbear to fit in a 5-foot cube. Perhaps an owlbear cub?
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Perhaps you're in a halfling village. 5ft is HUGE.
Originally posted by MykeSchultz:
How they made guidance somewhat surprises me; I too hoped that they wouldn't make any game element that was pretty much auto-pick, or make some things way better than others. I surely thought that this would not be the case in this edition (albeit, I had only hope to rely on), but now that a lot of character ops threads are spawning, when I look at the game elements its starting to look much like the last edition in this regard (that said, there are a lot more variables now that can affect ratings). I suppose that was too much to ask for though? Of course, the dm can fix whatever. But I don't like going "down that road" (I find it a slippery-slope that usually ends in/spells disaster). And the argument from fun doesn't fly with me either, given I find balance to be the most fun.
Originally posted by Undrhil:
Produce Flame *can* be used to set fires. It can also be used to attack. So, it is an upgrade to Light. Please read the cantrips fully before making this kind of list.
Originally posted by Mind_Flayer_Monk:
Chill Touch's ability to stop hit point gain is devastating with some our level 5+ challenges. Especially since a sorcerer can easily put out 3 chill touchs for a couple of sorcery points (quickened and twin spell). TPKed the party with Bugbears and an evil sorcerer. Party then picked it up and walked all over a bunch of trolls.
Originally posted by pukunui:
You don't have to be able to see the other person. They can be on the other side of a wall, or inside a house while you're outside, as the message doesn't have to go in a straight line. It can go through an open window or down a windy corridor. I love this cantrip.
I have yet to see anyone in any of my groups take guidance. Bless gets used a lot though.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Yes, and I say it can set fires in my review..? I presumed it takes up your hand (because you basically 'throw' it when attacking with it), but on second reading, that bit's unclear. If it does not take up your hand, and you can throw it even by waving your hand at people from behind the shield it's clasping, then it's better than Light (because burning), yes.Undrhil wrote
That's why I said 'must BASICALLY be able to see the person', as you need to know at least the room where they exactly happen to be at the time. I've always been able to just whisper a thing to a person in those cases, but I do want it to be useful. Glad you're finding it so.
Originally posted by Ashrym:
Guidance is a pretty nice cantrip though, if the player likes playing with skills. It's just like giving clerics expertise or proficiency in pretty much every skill at first level because of the average +2 bonus it gets (yes I rounded down). It doesn't scale like ABI's adding to skills, proficiency, or actual expertise; or even natural athelete. It's clearly not as good as jack-of-all trades or natural athelete, or even the help action. It's not nearly as useful as bardic inspiration, which, even though it's more limited, can generate bigger bonuses and work on multiple targets simultaneously.
What makes it useful regardless of other abilities is that it stacks, it's pretty much always available, and the game does us ability checks as a basic mechanic. As far as cantrips go, it's a pretty good choice.
Originally posted by Yunru:
On Guidance: Initiative is a Dexterity check.
Originally posted by Hailrobonia:
*Rant on
I hate prestidigitation.
It should be banned for anyone who has not played D&D for at least a year. While I fully support thinking outside the box and creativity, I see so many new players taking this spell and trying to use it for EVERYTHING. Especially in combat. "I use prestidigitation to make a skull appear to scare away the goblin... I use prestidigitation to make the sound of a vampire to force the elf to surrender... I use prestidigitation to turn the cultist's scimitar into a baguette..." Even experienced players try to do this as well, but typically they don't do it while in combat.
I swear nobody reads the spell. No, you can't do just about anything that people try to do with the spell. In my reading you can't even use it to clean yourself unless you happen to be only one foot tall. You can't use it to replace your intimidate/deception/persuasion check. It only has a 10' range.
I get it. Not everyone wants to play a typical combat character. But I have been in so many games where there you are, fighting against a gang of bandits, and Sasha the Sorceress, instead of blasting enemies, decides to make her hair pretty so that she can charm the bandit leader. I suppose the best way to deal with this would be to treat it as a "help" attempt, so that your distraction gives the next attack on the target advantage.
*Rant off.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
First post now comes in colors, so we can argue in a new way!
I could have compared the cantrips against other options within that class, but Dancing Lights would still suck, so I just compared them to all others.
Originally posted by Jamwes:
Same here. To me, Guidance doesn't seem good at all. An action to grant +1d4 on a roll to someone within a minute isn't that great. I would rather do the Help action to grant Advantage on the check instead. The only saving grace is that you can choose to roll the 1d4 after you roll the skill check d20. I disagree with Guidance being rated sky blue, it seems to be a blue or black to me.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Even in a 2-man party, you cast the Guidance first, then Help the action, and they get the benefit of BOTH.
It stacks with everything ever, and you can have it affect the majority of non-combat rolls (and at least the Initiative roll of the next combat). This is why it's rated good.
Originally posted by Yunru:
That and it works on initiative. Seriously, can't stress that enough. Very few things boost init and this is one of them.
Originally posted by Demosthenes2054:
Personally I'd prefer a list that was a bit more objective. I feel that the OP was to busy focusing on being clever and snarky to give some of these spells a fair shot. Though it did make for an entertaining read I really don't find the list very useful.
I do agree that True Strike is bad though not for any reason outlined by the OP. Requiring concentration on a spell that lasts a single turn?
Originally posted by Ashrym:
It is and still doesn't compare to other abilities that can add to initiative, and it still costs concentration right before the fight for that initiative. That's when most groups would prefer something like bless.
Originally posted by Ashrym:
I would move dancing lights to black. It's go range and versatilty going for it. The person could use it for a light source, multiple light sources in multiple areas, move it repeatedly while remaining stationary to see things farther away, and shape into different forms as a possible distraction. It's much easier to mislead enemies who see torch lights in the distance than it is to use minor illusion with the much more limit range. If it wasn't for the concentration mechanic I would move dancing lights I would have it on a lot of characters, tbh.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
See, Concentration requirement is why it falls down so hard for me - you may have a ton of other things running when you really just want a light source. It's just simpler to cast Light on a rock and toss it, if you want to move it.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Sounds like someone should make one, with class-by-class and cantrip enhancing features analysis.Demosthenes2054 wrote
Concentration certainly does get thrown around haphazardly, doesn't it? I did not even remember to check True Strike for that, because end of the list. RED IT IS
Originally posted by Ashrym:
The light ends if you cast light again. It doesn't cover multiple areas at once like dancing lights can and it's missing the trickery aspect dancing lights has. It's like a limited form of minor illusion but with much better range and doubles as multiple area lighting. I would have gone with black. Maybe purple if a person considers it too niche but I think it's better than the light cantrip, personally.
Originally posted by Fralex:
Poison Spray isn't a ranged attack, it's a Constitution save.
Originally posted by Litania84it:
unless you count owlbear as an object, you cannot. owlbear statue maybe.
Originally posted by Squad:
One advantage of Thorn Whip is that it has a range of 30ft, but you make a melee spell attack, rather than a ranged attack. This way you can attack at range without having disadvantage on your roll if an enemy is within 5ft.
Yes, and as such it's also not subject to disadvantage from nearby enemies. Also, I'm not sure why it's rated so low given it's high damage. It's not like damage cantrips need to have a long range to be useful.Fralex wrote
Originally posted by Thank_Dog:
Acid Splash is awesome. Any smart player will try to pick off all the weaker enemies first, especially in an edition like this one where even "weaker" enemies can still do decent damage and screw you up hardcore in large numbers.
I also think that Friends is highly underrated. I've used it to excellent effect in many situations.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Good point. Will that then pull the opponent into your lap?
Because pure damage is uninteresting. You could do more of that with a crossbow. IMO and all that, but I want there to be some other effect than a bigger die that may still come up as 1, and that is the totality of your contribution for the turn, then.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
I want to like it, but thought it looked weak for even minions. I changed it up to black now, with the caveat that you need to have some likely AoE way to have already weakened up said minions - hitting bigger enemies, unless the GM communicates that they only have around 5 hp left, seems like too much of a gamble.
Originally posted by FluffyBunbunKittens:
Good catch! That makes it slightly less bad!Fralex wrote
Originally posted by Yunru:
Nonesense. Bless is useless outside of combat. Maintaining Guidance, however, cost (near) nothing. As soon as you've rolled initiative simply drop Guidance and cast Bless if that's your shtick.
Bless is also a 1st level spell, so not something you're going to be maintaining on your characters.
