Finland to pay all its citizens 800 euros a month to fight unemployment

CapnZapp · Dec 8, 2015

Ovinomancer said:
Maybe I'll change my mind after this shakes out a bit.

The thing is it doesn't need to be perfect, and you don't need to change your mind.

The important thing is that someone somewhere tries it out at all.

That it might be Finland, which is a country whose living conditions I would assume most of us find relatively relatable is a huge bonus!

(I mean; if it were a dependency, such as an overseas territory of, say, France or the U.S., or a third-world country operating on a subsistence economy, that would make it much more difficult to translate any effects onto my or your situation)

Ovinomancer · Dec 8, 2015

CapnZapp said:
The thing is it doesn't need to be perfect, and you don't need to change your mind.

The important thing is that someone somewhere tries it out at all.

That it might be Finland, which is a country whose living conditions I would assume most of us find relatively relatable is a huge bonus!

(I mean; if it were a dependency, such as an overseas territory of, say, France or the U.S., or a third-world country operating on a subsistence economy, that would make it much more difficult to translate any effects onto my or your situation)

Did you think we disagree, or where you just using my statement as a launching point?

delericho · Dec 8, 2015

CapnZapp said:
Not sure I see it as a problem if this upends the way there currently exist a job at a pay that someone is doing only because he or she will otherwise fall out of society...

Chances are, that job could be eliminated if only the organization responsible gave a rat's arse about fixing it. And if the job is one of those rare ones that you actually need to get it done, but you can't just put a machine or robot on it... then chances are exceedingly high it was severely underpaid from the start, and everything's still golden - the organization is simply forced to increase the paycheck until they get applicants for the position.

I was thinking of something like sewage workers - a job that absolutely has to be done and probably can't be automated, but which is also deeply unpleasant. And while it probably is badly underpaid, I suspect it's also one that local governments would have a hard time paying at a high enough level to make it attractive.

I may, of course, be wrong.

Tonguez · Dec 8, 2015

delericho said:
I was thinking of something like sewage workers - a job that absolutely has to be done and probably can't be automated, but which is also deeply unpleasant. And while it probably is badly underpaid, I suspect it's also one that local governments would have a hard time paying at a high enough level to make it attractive.

I may, of course, be wrong.

sewerage pretty much is automated now though. The only human element is turning the tap.
Water treatment is a semi-skilled job which primarily involves water testing, checking gauges and some basic science (chemical mixing, identifying microbes) a senior operator is probably looking at around $50-60k

Kramodlog · Dec 8, 2015

delericho said:
It's very likely that Finland's tax regime will be revised alongside the introduction of the universal income, meaning that those in the middle class will pay more taxes to offset their gain from UI (and the upper classes will pay considerably more). For those in the middle, their net income will probably end up about the same as it was before.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see either of our point might be valid.

Kramodlog · Dec 8, 2015

CapnZapp said:
At that level you pay so much in taxes, it essentially disappears. It might appear to be an issue, but really isn't.

Are you Finnish or from somewhere else? From Québec, I can say it doesn't disappear at that level.

Maxperson · Dec 8, 2015

delericho said:
There's a lot of stuff you don't have to re-buy, because the second child can re-use the same toys, pram, crib, clothes, etc that the first child used two years previously. And demand on things like electricity, phone bills and the like will go up as the number of children increases - but adding that first child is disproportionately more expensive.

Sure, if you plan the second child immediately and have room to save the stuff. That often doesn't pan out, though, and the amount you spend on electricity and phone is negligible compared the the amount you are losing.

Kramodlog · Dec 8, 2015

CapnZapp said:
Yes, since without the bread, what would those games be...?

Hide the baguette?

Kramodlog · Dec 8, 2015

CapnZapp said:
It's not designed to solve capitalism. It's designed to keep the unemployed out of crime and rebellion.

Not saying your problems don't deserve to be solved but please don't mix them into this discussion. Thank you.

What are my problems?

Maxperson · Dec 8, 2015

goldomark said:
What are my problems?

Not knowing what your problems are for one. You shouldn't have to ask

Finland to pay all its citizens 800 euros a month to fight unemployment

CapnZapp

Legend

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!

delericho

Legend

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel

Kramodlog

Naked and living in a barrel

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

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