Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Nah. The dark side allowed him to hide himself. It wasn't that the Jedi couldn't sense normal stuff just fine.
The Prequels, Episodes I-III. What did you like about them?
Nah. The dark side allowed him to hide himself. It wasn't that the Jedi couldn't sense normal stuff just fine.
Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
maxperson said:
That's an opinion.
Most of the rest was just you ignoring things that weren't the same and exaggerating the things that were similar. It wasn't a remake. Remakes tell the same story. This told a different story, with many of the same pieces. Hence a homage (at worst). It's not even a reboot, as it keeps everything that's gone before (and, in fact, bases it's larger plot on those events).
Seriously, when you have characters from the original movies included as themselves, with their backstory 100% intact, it's really hard to call it a remake of an earlier film. I get the need to express nerdrage, but lets have some perspective.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
yeah theres only a 5 yeah age-gap, in Phantom Menace he's 9 and she's 14. So if Padme is 23 in Attack of the Clones then Anakin is 18/19 - which is pretty much meh as an age gap, he just likes his ladies mature...
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
I said "Name one thing in that large paragraph that wasn't a fact." The second little paragraph wasn't included.
Those facts in the main paragraph show beyond a doubt that it was a "remake." When 95%+ of the story is identical to another movie. It's a remake. You can cover your eyes and yell lalalalala all you like, but it's not going to make Episode VII a new movie. Hell, Scrooged changed more about the Scrooge story than Episode VII did the A New Hope story.
Not really. There were a very, very few scenes outside of the standard A New Hope scenes. When you do a remake, you change some things. The inclusion of those older characters is nothing more than a slight change to the story. Slight changes =/= a new movie.
Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
Your point?
Fine, I'll fisk it.
The first two things here, the names, are opinion. There's zero fact in your choice of appellation. Secondly, none of this is a retread of ANH except the desert planet and being sent there as a child. Rei has a vastly different childhood than Luke.
The 1st Order needs them as well. This is different as well, as both sides are racing to the same place, whereas in ANH, the Rebels are trying to get the plans and the Empire is trying to recover them.
You totally ignored all of Finn's story here, which is entirely unique. Also the bit where they had to fight their way off, which is, again, very different from ANH where they just hid and ran.
Finn Solo is an opinion. You also ignore that Rei isn't remotely at all like Leia. Also, Rei does a good job of escaping on her own, so it's very much NOT like the rescue scene in ANH.
The Emperor never appears to Vader in ANH.
Also, almost everyone in the movie meets Ren, very much unlike Vader who only ever met Obi-wan.
Complete opinion.
The cantina scene is also very different. It's not menacing like in ANH, it's a welcoming place where the heroes find assistance.
Yup, those happened, but so did a bunch of other things you left out. Like the lightsaber fight between Finn and Rei and Kylo -- something that has no equal in ANH (or any other original trilogy movie, as there are exactly three lightsaber duels in all three movies).
So, yeah, opinion and exaggeration alongside purposefully ignoring the glaring differences. Did the movie borrow a bunch of stage dressing and even plot elements? Yes, it clearly did. That doesn't a remake make.
Huh, so Han's interactions weren't very different from ANH, so long as he's Han it's the same movie? Dude, I can't even.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
The point was, if you're going to quote something, pay attention to what you quote so you don't get it so incredibly wrong.
Wrong. You probably saw some alternate reality A New Hope. The one I saw show Luke's childhood, just like this one didn't show Rei's. They both went as children and we saw both as young adults. They are equivalent characters in the story. You are also factually wrong that those two things are the "only" retread of A New Hope. Reluctant hero helping Rei off the planet = re-tread. Acquiring a droid containing valuable plans to the "rebellion" = re-tread. Scavengers wanting the droid = re-tread. The "empire" coming to look for the droid = re-tread.
Same difference. Slight changes don't prevent it from being a remake. That's what remakes are all about. Making slight changes to a story to tell the same story with a slightly different twist.
Finn's "unique" story is irrelevant. He's the reluctant hero with feelings for another protagonist. Hell, he even left her behind and then came back...................just like Han Solo. His "uniqueness" is just more of that slightly different twist you see with remakes.
LOL Finn Solo was just to show what the equivalent character is in A New Hope.
Okay. You got me on one thing. You're still being willfully blind to the virtually copy of A New Hope that the movie really is.
Funny. I remember Vader meeting Leia.
All of these "differences" you bring up prove one thing. You don't understand what a remake is. It's not an identical clone of the original movie, in case you wanted to know.
I didn't say the remake was identical. Remakes have some differences. They always do. They're still remakes.
MarkB
Legend
Homages have many similarities. They always do. They're still not remakes.
dd.stevenson
Super KY
I like them for what they taught me about George Lucas, and by extension, the importance of respecting every step in the creative process.
Ovinomancer
No flips for you!
Yup, and that's your opinion. You quote 'facts' but they're really your interpretations and assumptions. You've chosen to highlight things that support your argument while dismissing everything else as minor changes that don't affect your opinion. That's a nice opinion, but you thinking it doesn't make it fact.
TFA has it's own story elements. It tells a similar, but ultimately different story. It doesn't overwrite or ignore the previous stories it borrows from, and instead weaves those original stories into it's own via callbacks and borrowing plot elements. It's a classic example of myth building, including having the same story cycles and references. This is, again, classic storytelling examples -- by grounding the new adventures so firmly in the trappings of the known stories, they get immediate buy-in and understanding of the material, and can now move in a new direction after making sure that everyone knows this is in the same world as the original. For it to be a remake, it couldn't do any of that -- it would have to be a retelling of the original story which it's clearly not, even if it borrows many of the older stories clothes.
Vagabond234
First Post
Just the Jedi fights for me. I guess the backstory cleared things up a bit but the acting...yuck.
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