Ainulindalion
First Post
The madness tables in the DMG explicitly list a 'attack the nearest creature' option. So there's that.
Great Lakes Train Wreck
Actually there are rules against PvP in AL. AL Player's Guide
p4
"No Undermining of Other Characters During
Adventures. Adventurers are brought together by
common cause, and during an adventure, they’re
expected to work together to overcome challenges.
Though certain factions might find others distasteful,
individuals will put that aside and become a team when
put in dangerous situations. In short, play nice with
each other when things get deadly."
also code of conduct p9
"Participants must not conduct themselves in a manner
that is disruptive to the enjoyment or safety of others
at the event."
Madnesses don't prescribe you have to kill fellow PC's (certainly none in season 3 did). Saying you have to attack PC's is the same as using the lame excuse "That's how my character would have done it - I'm just playing my character." As a player, it is your choice how your character would handle things - remember rule 1 - "Don't be a dick." Donald Trump is Megalamonical but he doesn't seem to kill protestors himself
That is a short-term madness effect that lasts for 1d10 minutes and then disappears. It's not comparable to an indefinite effect -- the closest indefinite effect is "I've discovered that I really like killing people," which one could argue is pretty much the definition of an adventurer, and isn't focused on your allies.
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Pauper
Neither of these rules prohibit characters from attacking other PCs; the first rule simply says that a character cannot 'undermine' another character, without really defining what that is (but as noted, once I was hiding from a berserk barbarian, I found out -- by then it was too late). The second rule prescribes player behavior, not character behavior (review the examples of disruptive behavior listed in the ALPG to confirm this; none of the examples include 'engage in PvP'). Even so, if the AL is offering an option that encourages players to violate the Code of Conduct, that's an issue for the AL to deal with.
It's OK, though, I'm not blaming the AL for the entire event, just for contributing to it. As noted, there's plenty of blame to go around. I'm just hoping by sharing this experience, it's less likely to happen at other tables.
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Pauper
Steve_MND
First Post
Nothing of what you quoted there says that there is no PvP in the AL. Now, mind you, in many cases that are likely to come up, PCs attacking another PC would indeed be considered "undermining" the other's character and/or providing an unpleasant play experience for those involved, so, functionally, that may equate to much the same thing. But it's not exactly the same. If PvP were literally forbidden, you could not, for example, strike another character who had fallen under Crown of Madness or similar effects, even to subdue. If PvP were literally forbidden, a DM could argue that you can't tackle another PC who you knew was about to unwittingly set off the Button of Doom in a mod, or perhaps not be able to disarm or interfere with another PC who was about to kill an innocent NPC.
PvP itself isn't forbidden, altho most situations regarding how it would likely come about are -- i.e., "don't be a dick."
Semantics? Perhaps. But if there is one thing that OP players have developed a (perhaps unhealthy) love of over the decades, it's stickling a bunch of rules.
Sorry but in what way is attacking a PC not undermining that PC? It seems to be an absolute. If I kill your PC, I'm certainly undermining his ability to participate. Every AL DM I've played with and every session I've DM'd have the same point of view.
If I see a character act against another character (unless dominated, etc.), as a DM that results in me interrupting the actions - explaining AL rules about it and trying to reconcile the situation amicably. Second attempt, they are out of the game - I've tossed people and never had an AL admin or RC overturn what I've done (I've actually been commended for having done so).
It does broach an interesting question, though, of how close to that line can you get? That would be a good thread to start (I will post it as it's own thread).
I don't think the problem in this situation was AL - it was the players, the DM, and the shop (in my view).
Fred
If I see a character act against another character (unless dominated, etc.), as a DM that results in me interrupting the actions - explaining AL rules about it and trying to reconcile the situation amicably. Second attempt, they are out of the game - I've tossed people and never had an AL admin or RC overturn what I've done (I've actually been commended for having done so).
It does broach an interesting question, though, of how close to that line can you get? That would be a good thread to start (I will post it as it's own thread).
I don't think the problem in this situation was AL - it was the players, the DM, and the shop (in my view).
Fred
You are certainly welcome to your view. In my view, though, had the PC in question not contracted a specific form of madness that only appears in an AL adventure, the train wreck would have been totally averted. In that sense, the AL does assume some degree of responsibility.
I'm going to refrain from commenting about PvP in the thread you created, so as not to turn that thread into a copy of this one. (I couldn't help but point out some things about the loot rules, though.)
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Pauper
Warmaster Horus
Explorer
No PVP at my table. It is disruptive and breaks the rules of AL. I find intentionally killing or inflicting significant (or any) damage on another PC to be particularly undermining and never allow it. Hell, I warned a player last week who wanted to cast Suggestion on another PC to go along with a plan they didn't want to agree to as being undermining that player's control of their character. Feel free to persuade them normally if you can but do not physically or magically coerce them. As a DM, I can do that to a PC, that's the game. Other PCs can't, because it's AL and is a dick move anyway (though I would allow it in a non-AL game if the players were comfortable with that sort of thing).
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