[WOIN] Dark Sun

For 8 years I've been looking for a rule set that would allow me to play a game in the Dark Sun world I envision after reading the books. Unfortunately D&D and it's derivatives have left me unhappy for various reasons (with 4e coming the closest to working for me). I think WOIN could actually handle my interpretation of Dark Sun so I'll start posting my conversions.

Half-Giant
Size: Large
Attributes: +4 Strength, +2 Endurance, +2 Psionics, -2 Logic, -2 Charisma


Gullible. Easily tricked, Half-Giants take a permanent -1d6 penalty to detect deception.
Dull-witted. Although slow-witted, Half-Giant minds are hard to penetrate. They gain a +4 bonus to MENTAL DEFENSE.
Brawny. Half-Giants increase their carrying capacity by 50%.

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just something I quickly whipped up. WOIN has a lot less negative penalties to stats so it took me a bit together the stat modifiers working. +4 Strength is really only +1d6 and the bonus decreases as you get higher in level. This is clearly a tweaked version of the Ogron. I'd be interested in feedback. This is just a "whenever I have a spare five minutes" project

Interesting! Dark Sun is probably the setting I'm personally least familiar with from D&D, so I'm not sure how much commentary I could offer from that side of things.

Mechanics-wise, you're missing the skill choices for the race. Of course, it's a fantasy setting with psionics, which will be fun to convert.

Giving starting scores of -2 means you run a danger of characters with attributes of 1, given that they begin at 3. A LOG attribute of 1 is basically an animal (even a dog has 2). I don't know how dumb half giants are in the setting, but with a score of 1 they won't even be able to talk.

Definitely keep 'em coming!

That's annoying. I did a second version of the Half-Giant at work a week ago and it looks to have not saved. Here it is again:

Half-Giant
Size: Large
Attributes: +3 Strength, +1 Endurance, +1 Psionics
Skills: unarmed fighting, heavy weapons, melee weapon, light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shields, [physical], perception, insight

Large appetite. Half-Giants drink four times as much water and twice as much food as humans.
Gullible. Easily tricked, Half-Giants take a permanent -1d6 penalty to bluff checks.
Slow-witted. Half-Giants take a permanent -1d6 penalty to lore checks.
Empty mind. Although slow-witted, Half-Giant minds are hard to penetrate. They gain a +4 bonus to MENTAL DEFENSE.
Brawny. Half-Giants increase their carrying capacity by 50%.Naturally psionic.A society which integrates psionics from childhood, venetians start play with one free psionic power.

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I've tweaked the stats to keep in mind Morrus's feedback on what values in those scores represent as well as the World Building PDF (which I didn't have originally).

Half-Giants get They get 3 beneficial abilities (same as ogrons with naturally psionic replacing stronger with age). They get 3 penalty racial traits, large appetite, gullible and slow-witted. This is one extra penalty then Ogrons get, however in return they get +5 to their racial stats with a +3 to Strength (the highest bonus you can get from race). This is +1 more than Ogrons get.

Ideally they should be on par with Ogrons. Does this look correct to everyone else? Their slow-witted ability is meant to represent their penalty to LOG without giving them a numerical penalty. Does that seem a good way to represent that? Does anyone have a better way?

Their skills obviously represent their physical brawn as well as the military training they almost always receive one way or another. However half-giants are also constantly imitating other creatures which requires them to be observant of others. This is represented by perception and insight being racial skills. My understanding is that Bluff is opposed by Bluff rather than being opposed by Insight. If that is true, then insight makes a perfect skill (as they can be quite responsive to other people's moods), otherwise remove insight as a racial skill.

Morrus said:

Of course, it's a fantasy setting with psionics, which will be fun to convert.

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WOIN pretty much seems like a perfect fit to Dark Sun to me with it being a mix and match ruleset

That looks pretty good. CHA checks to bluff are usually opposed by INT checks; bluffing and insight would be appropriate skills there. It seems a little contradictory to me to give them insight as a skill choice while also giving them a penalty to use it.

Another way which just occurred to me for slow-witted - bear in mind I just thought of it, haven't tested it, or even necessarily thought it through, but how about instead of a penalty, increase the time? So they would take twice as long to make any LOG checks. That way, if they're involved in an extended skill task or something, they take longer to reach the same conclusion everybody else does.

Morrus said:

That looks pretty good. CHA checks to bluff are usually opposed by INT checks; bluffing and insight would be appropriate skills there. It seems a little contradictory to me to give them insight as a skill choice while also giving them a penalty to use it.

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Yes. If bluff is opposed by insight then itshouldn't be a racial skill. However the N.E.W. Core rule so on page 10 has bluffing a guard as CHA (bluffing) v INT (bluffing) is this a case of rules vs rulings? Or is that table intended to be adhered to (for those e apples) unless overruled by a GM?

Morrus said:

Another way which just occurred to me for slow-witted - bear in mind I just thought of it, haven't tested it, or even necessarily thought it through, but how about instead of a penalty, increase the time? So they would take twice as long to make any LOG checks. That way, if they're involved in an extended skill task or something, they take longer to reach the same conclusion everybody else does.

Click to expand...

I like that. What's crafting intended to fall under though? Half-Giants should be good at rote repetitive tasks that don't necessarily require what they're doing to be understood by them.

JohnLynch said:

Yes. If bluff is opposed by insight then itshouldn't be a racial skill. However the N.E.W. Core rule so on page 10 has bluffing a guard as CHA (bluffing) v INT (bluffing) is this a case of rules vs rulings? Or is that table intended to be adhered to (for those e apples) unless overruled by a GM?

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A bluffer knows a bluffer. An insightful person knows one, too. So either skill would be appropriate. That table, to be clear though, is simply some examples and suggestions -- it's the GM's call to assign attributes checks, and the player's call to justify skill usage.

I like that. What's crafting intended to fall under though? Half-Giants should be good at rote repetitive tasks that don't necessarily require what they're doing to be understood by them.

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Well, not LOG if they don't need any understanding. If it's just repetition... WIL? END? Whatever makes you able to keep repeating the same thing, that's not LOGIC, for sure!