DMs Guild Can You Fund A DMs Guild Product On Kickstarter?

Back in January, WotC's Mike Mearls was asked that question; he replied "Yes, but be sure to look at the terms of use for the DM's Guild to make sure you understand how they apply to your product." It seems that OneBookShelf (the company which runs DMs Guild for WotC) has now clarified this statement to make it clear that while you can theoretically fund a product via Kickstarter, you can't distribute it via that platform.

Back in January, WotC's Mike Mearls was asked that question; he replied "Yes, but be sure to look at the terms of use for the DM's Guild to make sure you understand how they apply to your product." It seems that OneBookShelf (the company which runs DMs Guild for WotC) has now clarified this statement to make it clear that while you can theoretically fund a product via Kickstarter, you can't distribute it via that platform.


DMsGuild-Logo.png



DLI Media, which launched a Kickstarter for an adventure trilogy this week, was told by OBS' Director of Publishing and Marketing:

Someone linked us to your Kickstarter and I wanted to touch base about a few things. DMsGuild creators cannot release titles on both DMsGuild and DriveThruRPG and they cannot use Kickstarter to "sell" their DMsGuild publications.

The wording on your Kickstarter makes me think this is more of an OGL type product, which is great because we have a ton of awesome 5e OGL content on DriveThruRPG and you are already set up to sell there.

You would only need to remove the DMsGuild elements (logos and text) from your Kickstarter page and continue on with your plans to sell on and fulfill your project via DriveThruRPG.com.


The email was followed up with further clarification:


The issue is you are in violation of the license on DMsGuild with your Kickstarter. All DMsGuild creations must remain exclusive to that storefront. They cannot be sold on DriveThruRPG, other storefronts, nor via Kickstarter tiers.

While it is true someone could run a Kickstarter to fund artwork or development of a DMsGuild title, they cannot offer tiers that provide backers copies of the title product. So, I imagine tiers would have to be "special thanks" or "game with the designer at Gen Con" or "your likeness used as one of the NPCs" all backers would still have to buy the book on DMsGuild once it launched as the publisher wouldn't be able to sell them a copy via crowdfunding.


Which is pretty much what's been said all along. No big surprises. It seems that it's a simple problem with a simple solution, though: allow publishers on DMsG to send complimentary products from that platform.


The DMsGuild license specifically agreed to by content creators states that all DMG titles are exclusive to the DMsGuild.com storefront. Putting the PDF on Kickstarter violates that exclusivity. You are specifically listing your title (understanding that it isn't officially released yet) on another site and not on DMsGuild. It wouldn't be available on DMsGuild until after you've collected funds and finished the project.

DMsGuild creators do not currently have the tool set to upload PoD files themselves.

It does sound like making adjustments and releasing this title on DriveThruRPG as a 5e OGL product would work better for your overall setup.


So, right now, Kickstarter isn't much use for DMsG products. But it sounds like some minor technical changes could solve that. In the meantime, if you want to create a 5E product and fund it via Kickstarter, the best bet is to produce an OGL product instead, like many companies are already doing.

So, no big news or anything, but a clarification that some folks might find useful before going ahead with their Kickstarters!

In other news, both Margaret Weis Productions Cortex+, and Mongoose Publishing Traveller, are the latest OBS DMsG-style third-party stores to open up, with Monte Cook Games' Cypher System store opening very soon. Seems to be a popular model! OBS refers to these as "Community Content Programs".
 

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surfarcher

First Post
Chris Lindsay from WOTC is probably the bloke you want to chat to, then.
Yeah I emailed him a couple of hours ago. My first email to Chris, tho Greg and I used to correspond a bit :) Peter Lee can be a good convo too, since we are both system math guys (tho admittedly he's a pro and I an amateur).
 

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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Thanks @M.T. Black .... I'm feeling more positive again this morning. I'm sure I'll get something working.

My original thought was to have the content on multiple sites but naturally that isn't allowed. Which I completely understand.

At the moment I'm thinking along the lines of simply releasing all the content as free. Then having both a Paypal donate button and a Patreon page (the main benefit of which is, I guess, an inside line to me). Every cent is going into producing content anyway. Noone contributes it'll be rather slow going lol

I wonder if I should ask the guys at WotC directly... Only Greg was the main guy from that side of things that I talked with. Maybe I should ask him who to ask lol

Edit: Always cool to get an enworld response from a fellow aussie :-D

Alternatively, release it as an OGL product everywhere *except* DMsG. Unless you desperately want to use the Forgotrn Realms, that's a very viable option. Plus you get a greater share of the proceeds, can do what you want with it forever, can sell print on demand copies, and - apart from the bits you designate as OGL - don't practically sign it all over to WotC.
 

surfarcher

First Post
Alternatively, release it as an OGL product everywhere *except* DMsG. Unless you desperately want to use the Forgotrn Realms, that's a very viable option. Plus you get a greater share of the proceeds, can do what you want with it forever, can sell print on demand copies, and - apart from the bits you designate as OGL - don't practically sign it all over to WotC.
I think you are definitely better off off-DMsG... If you have the support to pull it off!

My blog still gets around 350 hits per day, but it only has around 20 followers (inc email subscribers). It gets a bunch of refs but... I think it's highly unlikely that I'll hit 10 patrons in the first few months.

What DMsG does potentially give you is better exposure to new followers... It's good marketing for those of us at the lower end. And marketing is hard because we are just seen as spamming if we post links to forums, reddit, etc.

As things stand I am considering a mix for free/PWYW content posted via DMs Guild and other OGL content (patrons get free, but others can purchase). It's all just ideas I am toying with right now. But the aim is to find a way to offset the burden of funding artwork.
 


Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
That's the trick... a few of us have developed audiences on the DMs Guild. Would be interesting to see if those audiences would translate to a non-Guild platform

Welcome to Kickstarter! :)

Aside from that, all OBS sites sell pretty well. Try an experiment and put something up on RPGnow/DTRPG and see how it goes (you get a higher commission there, too).

In fact, Kickstart it and *then* do that!
 

Aside from that, all OBS sites sell pretty well. Try an experiment and put something up on RPGnow/DTRPG and see how it goes (you get a higher commission there, too).

Yeah, I have a couple of adventures that are just about ready to publish. I'm thinking of throwing one up on DMs Guild and one on Kickstarter to see the difference.
 

surfarcher

First Post
Welcome to Kickstarter! :)

Aside from that, all OBS sites sell pretty well. Try an experiment and put something up on RPGnow/DTRPG and see how it goes (you get a higher commission there, too).

In fact, Kickstart it and *then* do that!
Yeah, I have a couple of adventures that are just about ready to publish. I'm thinking of throwing one up on DMs Guild and one on Kickstarter to see the difference.
A couple of days ago I started thinking that crossing the boundaries and building up those audiences across the environment types could actually work very well. A slong as it's done properly.

I've had an interesting private conversation with CL@Wizards (Chris is a nice guy!) and am now in the process of exploring the DMsG side with DTRPG. It's promising and hopefully it pans out. I'll advise on that.

Assuming it does it looks like my strategy might involve using Patreon to drive regularly released high-quality free content on DMs Guild along with tailored private and/or paid content (possibly on other sites like DTRPG).

This brave new world is interesting!
 

Welcome to Kickstarter! :)
Morrus, have you shared your "Kickstarter Lessons" in a post somewhere? Having looked at your kickstarters, they are pretty similar to the sorts of things I'd want to run (the Dragon adventure especially), so I'd be keen to learn from your experiences (if you are willing to share them).
 

surfarcher

First Post
Morrus, have you shared your "Kickstarter Lessons" in a post somewhere? Having looked at your kickstarters, they are pretty similar to the sorts of things I'd want to run (the Dragon adventure especially), so I'd be keen to learn from your experiences (if you are willing to share them).
I would definitely enjoy reading about that!
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Morrus, have you shared your "Kickstarter Lessons" in a post somewhere? Having looked at your kickstarters, they are pretty similar to the sorts of things I'd want to run (the Dragon adventure especially), so I'd be keen to learn from your experiences (if you are willing to share them).

I'm not sure I'm the best person to write such a post - there are much better people out there who have truly mastered the art of Kickstarter. Monte Cook even wrote a book about it; definitely worth a read.
 

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